The thank you Betsy, Greg and Travis poll

[TourOfSardinia]

Floyd Landis was doubly impressive.

His winning the Tour like a substitute Lance really got everybody going.
It was entertaining to watch him.
He got caught.
Why wasn't Lance caught?

FL's turn about/confession after long denying:- time now for Lance
to emulate Floyd!

Jubilatum.

 

[Benotti69]

There are plenty who deserve our thanks and chapeau.

But i dont think it is fair to say who did the most.

I think all their contributions to the truth are important, some made bigger contributions than others but that doesn't lessen the others.

But it is not over.

 

[hiero2]

I want to thank all of them. I can't pick out one from the poll list. And I'm also not waiting for the whole enchilada. I also want to thank Landis, and Hamilton, and all the rest who have played some part in it. I really don't know that I could pick any of them as "1st".

 

[benzwire]

I would like to thank them all, but from those listed I say LeMond is the one I would want to thank the most. He has certainly paid the biggest price from all of this. Armstrong essentially ended Greg's bike line and soiled his name. There is a whole generation of fans that were told LeMond was a bitter old man that was jealous of Armstrong. There are many that will never know how great a cyclist he really was. Armstrong tried to destroy Greg's reputation and was successful in destroying his business. Armstrong, and Trek for that matter, owe Greg an apology. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

 

[hiero2]

Floyd Landis . . .
He got caught.
Why wasn't Lance caught?
. . .

I don't think Floyd is as smart, nor as canny, as Lance. It isn't exactly intelligence, although that plays a part, but a sense of when to say something to turn things your way, and what to say. CEO's have that kind of sense. Most of them are snakes. Part intelligence, part killer instinct, part grit. Not necessarily likeable once you get past the public persona. Having watched Lance since before he was a winner, I have to think he is smarter than most of the peloton, even though I do not like the guy.

I think that plays a part in all of the "why" here. You have a combination of some very smart and canny individuals, plus enough money. Plus luck.

How many times did Ulrich test positive? Vino? Pantani? Etc, etc, etc. Ad 1993-2010 infinitum. Compared to how many times we can reasonably assume they used? Not very many, eh? How many other riders haven't slipped up, NOT gotten caught, but we don't know because they are somewhere just under the pointy end?

 

[hiero2]

I say LeMond. He has certainly paid the biggest price from all of this. Armstrong essentially ended Greg's bike line and soiled his name. There is a whole generation of fans that were told LeMond was a bitter old man that was jealous of Armstrong. There are many that will never know how great a cyclist he really was. Armstrong tried to destroy Greg's reputation and was successful in destroying his business. Armstrong, and Trek for that matter, owe Greg an apology. I wouldn't hold me breath waiting for it though.

Agree 100%. Greg hasn't helped his own case, though. He always came off a bit like a whiner, even back when he was winning. That doesn't take away from his talent - he was a monster of a talent on the bike. But Trek won't get any of my business any more. If they come out and make a public apology, maybe.

Too bad. My old racing frame, back in the basement now, was a Trek. They did a lot for cycling in the US, too. But I sure don't like where their management went. Talk about management as snakes!

 

[Maxiton]

I want to thank all the people who have turned completely away from pro cycling once they realized how dirty and corrupt it is. Those fans and sponsors are the only real agents for change in this sport, and I am grateful to them.

What I find is that this position is not a choice; you just one day realize you can't bear to watch it anymore, and you trust the feeling will pass - like an illness.

Until it comes out to the whole world that Lance doped, and roll cant go on respected media stations saying that its just unsubstantiated allegations, and trolls dont patroll the entire internets apart from the clinic saying that there is no evidence that lance doped, and Ligget resigns as promised, and people claiming to be winning TDFs in the name of clean cycling risk a backlash by mentioning him as the ultimate inspiration to everything they do, and he isnt being called the greatest cyclist ever (which he never should be anyway) and he isnt taking up Mercx's place in greatest athletes ever lists etc etc etc.

Until then i will not celebrate victory. What good is it atm that he lost a court case if the oficial and popular view is that he is a clean 7 time tdf winner.

What The Hitch said. Poetry.



EDIT: BTW, I voted "Whole enchilada". When it's over and the sport is going in the right direction and being associated with it leaves a good taste in your mouth: that's when I'll celebrate and start thinking about who to thank.

EDIT 2: I also agree w/ everything hiero2 just said.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Too many to thank ...besides the ones you listed
Mike, Frankie, Novi....

hard to right all the wrongs done to them....

This can't be emphasized enough. Lots of people burned who probably won't get what they lost/went through back.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

All of the above, plus:

1 Carlos Sastre: what did dear Carlos do to pi$$ off Pharmstrong so much he a chased him down in 2002 towards la Plagne?
2 Carlos Sastre: what did pi$$ off Armstrong so much he came out of retirement at the silly age of 36 to prove he was the better of Carlos?
3 Christian van de Velde: what did pi$$ off Pharmstrong so much about the top ten place of Christian in 2008?
4 Johan Bruyneel: doping the idiot in the period 1999 till 2005 and letting the idiot make a comeback

and last, but not least we have:
5: Pharmstrong himself: his narcissisme [spelling?], his god complex made him come out of retirement producing the ones interested in his blood profile the gun for his execution. Nice work man!

I tend to think I forgot people but forgive me on that one.

 

[oldschoolnik]

Agree

Agree 100%. Greg hasn't helped his own case, though. He always came off a bit like a whiner, even back when he was winning. That doesn't take away from his talent - he was a monster of a talent on the bike. But Trek won't get any of my business any more. If they come out and make a public apology, maybe.

Too bad. My old racing frame, back in the basement now, was a Trek. They did a lot for cycling in the US, too. But I sure don't like where their management went. Talk about management as snakes!

Perfectly stated benzwire and Hiero2 (also the Hitch laster about LeMond, really spot on)

+++1

 

[skippy]

Hitch you must have seen the " Fat Lady " struggling upto the first corner of the L'Alpe d' Huez !
Question is , is she ever going to be able to sing ? Easier for her to turn back down the hill and hope for a " payday " at some future date when those involved in setting up kangaroo courts get their act together !
All of this sideshow was brought about by someone thinking they could get a %age of " pie in the sky "! Of course there are casualties but that matters little to those who would rob moms & pops with their sad & twisted version of reality .
Guess it's back to the paralympics for entertainment , this " clinic " has lost it's lustre in recent months , this thread is about as popular as watching paint dry .

 

[therealtimshady]

Just remind everyone he hasn't been convicted yet, and knowing the lance cases of old I wouldn't be surprised if he gets away with it again - so we shouldn't celebrate yet

 

[The Hitch]

How about the French !! they have wanted his scalp for years and werent giving up - the Italians also for their war on doping.

I like the French, they go after other countries a lot - Lance, all of Spanish sport, now Great Britain, and each time they are met with ad hominems like - jealous frogs, but i think they are right in all cases and they keep at it. Its their word, but Chapeau.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Betsy. She took the crap and never recanted. Was labelled terrible things. LA actually sought to destroy a woman.

I am surprised that no one ever opened up some jungle justice on him over the years...

 

[TubularBills]

Too many to thank ...besides the ones you listed
Mike, Frankie, Novi....

hard to right all the wrongs done to them....

Agreed...

& Mike Anderson in particular deserves quite a bit of vindication:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/02/news/interview-former-armstrong-assistant-ashamed-of-working-for-him_158382

 

[Microchip]

Travis in this instance, but recognize everyone else's major contribution. Travis because he's spearheading a well-thought-out way forward. Looking forward to the next poll. What about who we'd like to hug!?!

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I'm waiting for the enchilada, but it is probably going to be served cold.

 

[Microchip]

I'm waiting for the enchilada, but it is probably going to be served cold.

C'mon! The glass is half-FULL !!

 

[pedaling squares]

Judge Sparks is just doing his job. Tygart too. We're so used to people in positions of influence not doing what they are paid to do that we celebrate the few that do. Betsy had the most to lose. Greg is equally deserving of praise, but had more to fall back on than did the Andreus. I think of the options on this list, they put the most on the line without any expectation of gain, and with a very realistic expectation of loss.

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/5-questions-betsy-andreu

Betsy time!

 

[Race Radio]

From the Betsy interview

What's the upside been going up against Lance? To be publicly and privately portrayed as an ugly, obese, jealous, obsessed, hateful, crazed *****? (And really, so what if I were fat and ugly—would that preclude me from speaking honestly?) We've dealt firsthand with very real threats to our economic well-being because we refused to be on the lie-for-Lance train.

 

[JRTinMA]

I really thought my husband had a choice not to dope but The Troll, David Walsh, argued that had Frankie not succumbed, his career would have been over far earlier than it was. What kind of choice is that? This isn't a justification of Frankie’s wrongdoing, but rather an explanation.

I see she's toned down the defense of her doper husband, now he just doped to extend his career.

 

[Benotti69]

I see she's toned down the defense of her doper husband, now he just doped to extend his career.

tsk tsk, getting upset a little aren't we. Wonderboy behaviour spreading via the yellow wrist band huh?

 

[JRTinMA]

tsk tsk, getting upset a little aren't we. Wonderboy behaviour spreading via the yellow wrist band huh?

You live in a world of good dopers and bad dopers, I see all dopers as cheats. The only difference is the size of the scam, did Frankie scam people to the extent of LA? Nope, not even close. Then again maybe you should ask the clean rider who was scammed by Frankie and never had the chance. All dopers cheated somebody, the good news is they have people like you who will be their fans.

 

[Benotti69]

blub blub blub.

Not a fan of any current cyclists.

I am a fan of Betsy