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The Tour de France...the Armstrong vs. Contador show

Page 10 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Mar 20, 2009
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fpcyclingn said:
Oh, except for the UCI, french labs, and french media. No... those organizations are full of 100% ethical do-good smart people who would never break the rules.
So... If the race is "fixed" by the "corrupt" French labs and media, why does Armstrong keep coming back? Kind of makes him the idiot, right?
 
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grimpeur said:
So... If the race is "fixed" by the "corrupt" French labs and media, why does Armstrong keep coming back? Kind of makes him the idiot, right?

+1
Ahh, the razor of logic.
 
Bala Verde said:
Ah can you really blame Mormons from UT...

Funny thing about Utah, and I have spent a lot of time there, the heart of the state, Utah County, location of BYU, is known as the fraud capital of the nation. I do not know the reason, but gulliblility is a real problem; people there will believe anyone if they are clean cut, dressed in a suit, earnest, and appear to be a fellow Mormon.

I just thought I would mention that as it might explain some things. :)
 
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BroDeal said:
Funny thing about Utah, and I have spent a lot of time there, is that the heart of the state, Utah County, location of BYU, is known as the fraud capital of the nation. I do not know the reason, but gulliblility is a real problem; people there will believe anyone if they are clean cut, dressed in a suit, earnest, and appear to be a fellow Mormon.

I just thought I would mention that as it might explain some things. :)

My favorite state to visit actually. Moab really is as great as advertised in terms of mountain biking. Bryce Canyon and Zion NP are my two favorite national parks in the country. The White Rim trail is amazing. Canyonlands NP is phenomenal. Just a lovely state physically.
 
Apr 11, 2009
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When....link emerged the lights came on and I could understand.:rolleyes:

The problem with sects/cults is they twist a series of things and end up with a whole load of baloney (re the ability to hold to evident falsehoods). Like the butterfly/chaos effect.

For one, Native Americans as the descendants of a long lost tribe of Israel. Yes, ancient Jewish tribes for a fact were dispersed and disappeared (historical fact). But arriving in the U.S. in 600 B.C.? What, by Quantas? I'd like to see the chain of cause and effect, not the chain of custody.

Same logic as LA's never doped because:

1) he's "never" failed a testing regime filled with loopholes the size of a Mack truck (re autologous blood doping),

2) yet beats a whole host of those proven to be dopers (with min. augmented performance increases of 5-15%), not once but seven times in a row

3) and who ALSO have far higher natural VO2 maxes and other physical gifts.

Right, and let us believe in the tooth fairy and suspend the laws of physics/energy conservation for this one guy.

If he walks on water or rises from the dead, I'll believe, but until then count me a doubter (about him and a lot of others). He's a human being subject to the laws of energy conservation (and common sense), just like everyone else. No special cycling dispensations here....

Really and truly....capable of believing anything. Nonsense, zealously pursued. It's all of a piece.
 
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Parrot23 said:
When....link emerged the lights came on and I could understand.:rolleyes:

The problem with sects/cults is they twist a series of things and end up with a whole load of baloney (re the ability to hold to evident falsehoods). Like the butterfly/chaos effect.

For one, Native Americans as the descendants of a long lost tribe of Israel. Yes, ancient Jewish tribes for a fact were dispersed and disappeared (historical fact). But arriving in the U.S. in 600 B.C.? What, by Quantas?

Really and truly....capable of believing anything then.

...but the golden plates in the hat said........................
 
Jun 26, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
...but the golden plates in the hat said........................

Ahhh . . . we finally arrive at the last bastion of one who has no argument whatsover . . . ad homenim attacks.

"Ad hominem argument is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or attacking the person who proposed the argument (personal attack) in an attempt to discredit the argument. It is also used when an opponent is unable to find fault with an argument, yet for various reasons, the opponent disagrees with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Surrender and capitulation comes in all forms.
 
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byu123 said:
Ahhh . . . we finally arrive at the last bastion of one who has no argument whatsover . . . ad homenim attacks.

"Ad hominem argument is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or attacking the person who proposed the argument (personal attack) in an attempt to discredit the argument. It is also used when an opponent is unable to find fault with an argument, yet for various reasons, the opponent disagrees with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Surrender and capitulation comes in all forms.

First, I was referring to Mormon's in general, not specifically you. I was also making a South Park reference which your Wiki didn't pick up on.....

Is your name "Google?"
 
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Escarabajo said:
Here is something to read about tampering the 6 samples:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

Why would Lance give UCI permission to give a reporter copies of his doping control forms if he knew he was using EPO? He knew the test now existed. If he had anything to hide the answer to that question would be no it seems to me.

I've seen the blank forms they used to sign. It clearly stated that the samples could not be used for any purposes other than scientific study not linked to the rider beyond 3 years. (I think it's 3, I can't find the form now but it was part of the UCI commissioned independent investigation)

The clear reason for that was that nobody had established procedures that could assure handling of them beyond that point.

All Ashenden addresses in that article is the issue of how the number was linked to the name.

I see nothing addressing chain of custody or security issues about how samples were stored and handled long term.
 
jackhammer111 said:
Why would Lance give UCI permission to give a reporter copies of his doping control forms if he knew he was using EPO? He knew the test now existed. If he had anything to hide the answer to that question would be no it seems to me.

Armstrong did not know about the testing his samples for EPO. You are right, He is not stupid enough to give his authorization to dig his own grave. If he knew that they were doing the tests for that purpose he would never had given his authorization. It was actually a trick played by the L'EQUIPE reporter. They told Armstrong that they were doing like an special report on the many times that he was being tested at the tour and pro-level. So He agreed to give out his testing slips from that tour the France. Actually the UCI did it for him.

I've seen the blank forms they used to sign. It clearly stated that the samples could not be used for any purposes other than scientific study not linked to the rider beyond 3 years. (I think it's 3, I can't find the form now but it was part of the UCI commissioned independent investigation)

You got that right. It was actually used for scientific purposes: To validate an EPO test. It looks like it was successful.


The clear reason for that was that nobody had established procedures that could assure handling of them beyond that point.

Again it was for scientific purposes. I am not sure what protocols exists for those purposes. Lance Armstrong is free to sue whomever he wants if he believes there is something fake about the tests.

Some people in this forum for sure have more details in this issue than I do. I think Brodeal was talking about it a while ago.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
My favorite state to visit actually. Moab really is as great as advertised in terms of mountain biking. Bryce Canyon and Zion NP are my two favorite national parks in the country. The White Rim trail is amazing. Canyonlands NP is phenomenal. Just a lovely state physically.

One of the prettiest states I've ever seen. Outstanding scenery.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
First, I was referring to Mormon's in general, not specifically you. I was also making a South Park reference which your Wiki didn't pick up on.....

Is your name "Google?"

Not sure where this is going, but might be a good idea not to engage in stereotypes?
 
Jun 26, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
Okay dude but the Catholics say that all Mormons are pagans and will burn in Hell for all eternity. I'm just sayin' what the Pope says...

Yea . . . what about cycling and that whole TDF thing coming up in 5 days?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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www.ridemagnetic.com
I think the lot of ya are gonna burn in everlasting hell for being complete imbeciles. Get over it!

"What's this day of rest sh!t? What's this bullsh!t? I don't f*ckin' care! It don't matter to Jesus. But you're not foolin' me, man. You might fool the f*cks in the league office, but you don't fool Jesus. This bush league psyche-out stuff. Laughable, man - ha ha! I would have f*cked you in the @ss Saturday. I f*ck you in the @ss next Wednesday instead. Wooo! You got a date Wednesday, baby!"

~Jesus Quintana, 'The Big Lebowski'
 
Jun 26, 2009
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
I think the lot of ya are gonna burn in everlasting hell for being complete imbeciles. Get over it!

"What's this day of rest sh!t? What's this bullsh!t? I don't f*ckin' care! It don't matter to Jesus. But you're not foolin' me, man. You might fool the f*cks in the league office, but you don't fool Jesus. This bush league psyche-out stuff. Laughable, man - ha ha! I would have f*cked you in the @ss Saturday. I f*ck you in the @ss next Wednesday instead. Wooo! You got a date Wednesday, baby!"

~Jesus Quintana, 'The Big Lebowski'

Temper, temper, . . . you need to lay off the caffeine/meth/crank/bad weed this late at night.