The Tour de Oprah (WT) (1 team of 1 rider) Live Thread

[Joachim]

Ultimately, as much as we focus on the doping, this one statement is all that is required to expose Lance fully as a sociopath.

Everything, literally, falls apart from there.

Possibly, yes, but there are other possible explanations, one of which is that the man is/was under tremendous pressure and it is pretty easy to make dumb and crass comments under those circumstances ESPECIALLY if he was addressing a question that he clearly didn't want to answer, and we can only speculate as to why.

 

[Carols]

I don't know what thread to put things on anymore...

Here is link from NBC Today show. Includes interviews with LiveStrong CEO and Tyler Hamilton.

http://todaynews.today.com/_news/20...admission-brings-both-sadness-and-relief?lite

 

[GJB123]

You clearly understand me. Want to ridicule the language? Then we'd better stop right now.

Honestly I have no idea what you were trying to say. But since you call me laughable I am more than interested in understanding (against better judgement).

 

[D-Queued]

Yes, Oprah, I have. I have called her at crazy *****, a lunatic, a liar, a **** ****, a ******* cow and other things. But I have never called her fat. Giggle!

Ultimately, as much as we focus on the doping, this one statement is all that is required to expose Lance fully as a sociopath.

Everything, literally, falls apart from there.

Dave.

To underscore this further, judge that one statement against ALL of the Classic Sociopathic Traits and assess how many are confirmed in one sentence:

1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM
2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH
3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM
4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING
5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS
6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT
7. SHALLOW AFFECT
8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY
9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE
10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS
11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR
12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS
14. IMPULSIVITY
15. IRRESPONSIBILITY
16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS
17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS
18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY
19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE
20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY

Others may score it differently, but it is a lot of sociopathic traits in one sentence.

Dave.

 

[Joachim]

To underscore this further, judge that one statement against ALL of the Classic Sociopathic Traits and assess how many are confirmed in one sentence:

<snip>

Others may score it differently, but it is a lot of sociopathic traits in one sentence.

Don't get me wrong, there is much about the man that points towards psychopathic tendencies...

...but you cannot diagnose it from one sentence.

 

[airstream]

Yes, it is difficult to assess ability and talent at the height of EPO-use.

However it doesn't confuse you. You assess the past with such strident flatness that Ferrari, Walsh and Kimmage taken one with another would envy hugely.

Listen up, if you are such a big master at that explain to me pls how could you evaluate Contador's, Wiggins' and Froome's talent so precisely whereas 'it is difficult to assess ability at talest at the hight of' EPO-use, transfusions-use, CERA-use and EPO Aicar-use?

 

[Descender]

Yes, Oprah, I have. I have called her at crazy *****, a lunatic, a liar, a **** ****, a ******* cow and other things. But I have never called her fat. Giggle!

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard that. I was scared.

 

[GJB123]

However it doesn't confuse you. You assess the past with such strident flatness that Ferrari, Walsh and Kimmage taken one with another would envy hugely.

Listen up, if you are such a big master at that explain to me pls how could you evaluate Contador's, Wiggins' and Froome's talent so precisely whereas 'it is difficult to assess ability at talest at the hight of' EPO-use, transfusions-use, CERA-use and EPO Aicar-use?

Okay, I am officially done with you. Quoting of context and basically putting words in my mouth. I am gonna do something I haven't done before.

 

[D-Queued]

Don't get me wrong, there is much about the man that points towards psychopathic tendencies...

...but you cannot diagnose it from one sentence.

I wasn't suggesting that it could be diagnosed from one sentence.

I was simply observing that there is evidence of these traits in one sentence.

It takes more than those traits highlighted to qualify for a diagnosis.

Dave.

 

[Deagol]

Best comment I saw on Velonews live coverage last night: "it's like he's blaming some other Lance".


IMO, it was not very valuable: some vague truths mixed with half-truths, mixed with lies, mixed with avoidance. Throw in some of that old arrogance thinly veiled- with the veil slipping from time to time.

His faux pas about "I never called Betsy fat" won't go over well with the Oprah crowd.

Overall, I think he dug himself in a little deeper with his performance. I hope most mainstream people see that.

But, as for me, I like his credibility

 

[airstream]

Okay, I am officially done with you. Quoting of context and basically putting words in my mouth. I am gonna do something I haven't done before.

At least I take riders like approximately equal ones by and large and I don't try to explain everything with my personale scale of talent and ability as you do.

Having communicated with you, I'm already happy I didn't watch cycling in 90s

 

[Joachim]

Best comment I saw on Velonews live coverage last night: "it's like he's blaming some other Lance".


IMO, it was not very valuable: some vague truths mixed with half-truths, mixed with lies, mixed with avoidance. Throw in some of that old arrogance thinly veiled- with the veil slipping from time to time.

His faux pas about "I never called Betsy fat" won't go over well with the Oprah crowd.

Overall, I think he dug himself in a little deeper with his performance. I hope most mainstream people see that.

But, as for me, I like his credibility

I think we will only be able to judge this stuff accurately in a few months by which time we will have seen what the next steps he took were, if any. I don't feel any need to rush to condemn his confession, after all, we've waited 13 years for this.

His choice of Oprah was interesting. I don't think she gave him an easy ride at all, especially if you consider how it could have gone if she was working fully to his agenda. Some of the edits were striking, particularly the quotes from WADA (?) after his claims that his comeback was clean.

I think you have to consider who he was confessing to. It wasn't the world of cycling fans.

 

[Amsterhammer]

That sounds a bit too schoolyard for my liking. I think in this situation it is better to take a step back and try not to be a fan of anybody involved.

Don't even go there. If there's one thoroughly decent, untarnished person in this whole miserable tale it's Betsy Andreu. And, fyi there are plenty of Betsy fans on CN because she's simply a doll, an honest and sincere doll who has been standing up for the truth for 13 years now and who has consistently told the same truth. I love her, so watch it.

 

[Carols]

vid of JV on CBS This Morning

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505266_...e-lance-armstrong-confession-good-first-step/

 

[Joachim]

Don't even go there. If there's one thoroughly decent, untarnished person in this whole miserable tale it's Betsy Andreu. And, fyi there are plenty of Betsy fans on CN because she's simply a doll, an honest and sincere doll who has been standing up for the truth for 13 years now and who has consistently told the same truth. I love her, so watch it.

I think at this point Clinic etiquette demands that I denounce your views as worthless because you are a Betsy fanboi

 

[Amsterhammer]

I think at this point Clinic etiquette demands that I denounce your views as worthless because you are a Betsy fanboi

You've caught on quickly.

 

[GJB123]

At least I take riders like approximately equal ones by and large and I don't try to explain everything with my personale scale of talent and ability as you do.

One more time then. It isn't (just) my personal scale, but what most people/experts/fans/semi-experts/etc. say.

And if you take riders like approximately equal (I am assuming here that you mean in physical talent), that would be plain stupid. No rider is equal to another in physical talent. That is the whole idea of sports. And some riders who do not have sufficient physical talent compensate for that by hard work, dilligence, persistence , will power and yes, here it comes, illegal means such as cheating, PED abuse, bribery, etc. or a combination of alle the aforementioned (virtues and vices alike). Tyler Hamilton for example explains quite clearly in his book that his physical talent was limited so he ahd to use PED's to compensate for that and that his biggest talent was his ability to suffer and endure pain better than most non-riders and probably (according to others) better than most pro riders.

I will leave it to your inimitable good sense to decide in which ways LA most likely compensated for his inherent lack of physical talent.

 

[Bosco10]

vid of JV on CBS This Morning

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505266_...e-lance-armstrong-confession-good-first-step/

Doesn't he sorta kinda remind you of Drew Carey?

 

[Joachim]

...or Elton John

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Could you please try again, because I have no clue what you are trying to say?

Please stop wasting your time with airstream.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

What sort of absolute idiot goes on Oprah, admits to calling Betsy a "crazy b!tch", but proudly says, "but I never called her fat."

I mean here's Oprah looking at him like WTF? So, crazy b!tch is ok, but "fat", whoa!, that's just going overboard.

Of all people, he says that to Oprah. It's like the guy is deaf to his own funeral dirge. That's something you might joke about with the guys, but not in a worldwide telecast where you admit to being a fraud that has cheated and tried to destroy countless people.

What a piece of filth this guy is.

 

[goggalor]

Philantropist.

 

[airstream]

One more time then. It isn't (just) my personal scale, but what most people/experts/fans/semi-experts/etc. say.

And if you take riders like approximately equal (I am assuming here that you mean in physical talent), that would be plain stupid.

Clearly I meant top-level GT riders. Don't you find not normal that you admit relatively honest way to success only for Contador? You dislike Armstrong, Sky. I guess you don't respect Schleck too much too. On the side, it really looks like to equate preferences to abilities.

But a bigger talent doesn't guarantee bigger achievements, no?

No rider is equal to another in physical talent. That is the whole idea of sports.

No doubt, but no one can't judge about that objectively just because talent is quite abstract and polyhedral thing. So my approach is democratic at least due to the fact there are no normal and not normal things by virtue of disputable criteria. Talent and its measuremnt is overly disputable feature.

And some riders who do not have sufficient physical talent compensate for that by hard work, dilligence, persistence

Exactly. It is about what I'm saying above.

llegal means such as cheating, PED abuse, bribery, etc. or a combination of alle the aforementioned (virtues and vices alike).

Alright, who of great champions of last 2 decades do you recognize among those who didn't use that combination?

You root for a rider whose first GT victory is shrouded in even tighter mist of doping and bribery than the 1999 Tour de France. Do you find this logical?

I will leave it to your inimitable good sense to decide in which ways LA most likely compensated for his inherent lack of physical talent.

I don't consider him a bigger liar in terms of doping than other great GT riders if he didn't trample down Euskaltel and Phonak using UCI in which I start doubting in these latter days.


I can clearly understand guys who are all for clean cycling at all costs no matter what riders we can lose. Yes, Lance will be damned largely and deservedly. But those who narrow down all the things to talent and think that ones win deservedly and others don't, you are wrong. And soon very similar punishment will reach your riders and a talent argument will not work.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Gold

But it's backfired. Somehow, Armstrong's 'apology' has managed to make a persistent, career-long drug cheat, liar and bully even more unlikeable.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lance-armstrongs-oprah-apology-has-made-1543578

How could the year get off to a better start than to have Lance vilified in every media publication.

What a stellar start to 2013. What goes around truly does come around. Thank you Oprah !!!

 

[Microchip]

Oprah saying to Lance, "You're not worth the sectional you're sitting on."

Toto on NY Velocity