The truth about L.A

[theswordsman]

...types the guy with 1,000+ posts!

Lots of us have lots of posts. They pile up quickly when talking about a stage, or responding to a variety of topics over time. My count is low because I had them delete my old account under this name a few months ago (which started me at zero when I came back), and deleted a few hundred more when I got fed up and was going to quit again.

I haven't been around much the past few days because of a cyber attack, but I posted about the Tour of California, picked Ivan Basso to win Tuesday's Time Trial, posted a Jonathan Vaughters quote where he said ge believed his team is clean and will post the rider's blood profiles, etc.

I'm happy to see new members come in and pump some fresh energy into discussions. But when the Landis story broke the other night, and for the first time I spent five hours in The Clinic sharing news and high fives, I noticed tons of new names all posting pro-Lance. It was like their beepers had gone off and they all showed up at once to try to take over, or do damage control.

The good thing is, this time it's outside the hands of doping authorities, and no amount of bullying, or spin or name calling is going to win. Other people are going to come forward. If the story about Kristin cooperating with authorities is true, that's massive. If other people named aren't as invulnerable as Lance has been, let the plea bargains begin. The bigger the case gets, the more people (non-riders, people who know things but didn't do anything wrong) will be willing to come forward because they'll believe they can do it without the repercussions.

And sooner or later, there will be enough evidence to give investigators cause to obtain frozen samples that were taken before there was a test for EPO, or HGH. Maybe Morkeberg is close to a test to prove own blood infusions. This won't come down to the credibility or motives of Landis, or a smoking gun. It will be honest people who are tired of hiding what they know, and blood and urine popsicles. Unless the French police finish first.

For the dedicated Armstrong fans, I feel sorry for what you're gonna go through, because I used to be one myself. For the pros, time is running out, and think how it would feel explaining to your loved ones some day exactly how you're spending your summer. Cheers.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Just re-reading some of LA's comments.

He said at one point something to the effect of the rumor being that Floyd had been seen talking to himself.

Found that funny that LA would consider that a useful comment.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Sorry. What exactly do you mean?

Several of the posters on this thread are recent incarnations of the same guy who has been banned more than 30 times. You can tell the usual M.O. Two new posters agreeing with each other time after time. Lion of Flanders and Creatine Bob for example.

 

[Creatine Bob]

Several of the posters on this thread are recent incarnations of the same guy who has been banned more than 30 times. You can tell the usual M.O. Two new posters agreeing with each other time after time. Lion of Flanders and Creatine Bob for example.

Hmmm, I happened upon your message and feel compelled to share with you that I am not Lion of Flanders, although I do agree with his comments. I am not even sure how in my one post thus far I can be considered to have the MO of anyone who has been banned (which by the way, I have not).

 

[TexPat]

I am watching this all with genuine interest.

 

[red_flanders]

I am watching this all with genuine interest.

I'd wager w/o both hands on the keyboard.

 

[taiwan]

Well said and good points. I think some folks let their dislike of the perceived person get in the way of rational thinking.

I too am new here - welcome.

Hmmm, I happened upon your message and feel compelled to share with you that I am not Lion of Flanders, although I do agree with his comments. I am not even sure how in my one post thus far I can be considered to have the MO of anyone who has been banned (which by the way, I have not).

Welcome, then. Anything else you'd like to add on the topic?

 

[Hillavoider]

Its fun watching these people defend pharmstrong. Ha Ha i gotta laugh sometimes. pharmstrong supporters are known to raid boards which are negetive about pharmstrong. i was on an Australian site that got raided by pharmstrong supporters. when contador won the tour. its just so amazing how far lance's tenticles reach.
i've finally joined this forum because this is a watershed moment.

 

[Creatine Bob]

Welcome, then. Anything else you'd like to add on the topic?

Well, I would say the whole thing is a pretty sad affair. Certainly the stories of Armstrong do not always portray him as a nice guy. There is likely some truth in that ... with his focus he has likeyl stepped on many toes. Of course, neither Betsy or Greg come across as sympathetic or empathetic, so it does confound things.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Here's the reference to the LeMonde article, which references only a 1/30th of the level for a "positive". I can't speak for LeMonde, but my figure is what I recall from the reports at the time. Perhaps I'm in error, but don't presume that doping stories in LeMonde are entirely accurate. The point remains the same. A tiny concentration detected that was not anywhere near what would be considered a "positive test"

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/jul99/jul22.shtml

Ludo was pulled from the race by his team, not the UCI or the race officials. They probably knew that he was about to throw a positive.

Firstly - i am still awaiting the number of people who were in the Hospital room when Lance confessed to taking EPO & PED's.


Ah, so it wasn't 1/1000th as you said -also, what has a T/E ratio got to do with a positive for corticoids? I will give you a hint, why would you need a TUE if your result is not positive?

As for Ludo - actually he did not test positive as you "guess". I will allow you another shot.

 

[Berzin]

Well said and good points. I think some folks let their dislike of the perceived person get in the way of rational thinking.

I too am new here - welcome.

This sure is cute-one guy with two different usernames, and one is welcoming the other.

***.

 

[TexPat]

I'd wager w/o both hands on the keyboard.

right you are. I'm helping my 3yr old tie balloons.

 

[Creatine Bob]

This sure is cute-one guy with two different usernames, and one is welcoming the other.

***.

Once again, I will say I am not the Lion of Flanders (neither the poster nor the cyclist!) However, his post did resonate somewhat with me.

I found this thread interesting and relatively short. The thread about Landis is extremely long and I needed a break from reading it.

 

[taiwan]

This thread is registering a 9.9 on the wtfometer.

That is all.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This sure is cute-one guy with two different usernames, and one is welcoming the other.

***.

To be fair - they are different users. Although both have been here before.

If Creatin Bob sounds familiar well.......

Correct.

His personal info says his name is Bobby Crehan and he is from Ireland. However, his IP address says he is in Secaucus, New Jersey.

Huh, who would have thought Secaucus would be such a tourism hot spot for Irish vacationers?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This thread is registering a 9.9 on the wtfometer.

That is all.

Wooh, thats pretty high...... If you need a backdated TUE give me a call

 

[Hillavoider]

lol, this thread's biological passport could be red flagged for high levels of wtf.

 

[SpartacusRox]

Once again, I will say I am not the Lion of Flanders (neither the poster nor the cyclist!) However, his post did resonate somewhat with me.

I found this thread interesting and relatively short. The thread about Landis is extremely long and I needed a break from reading it.

Don't worry about guys like Berzin. They can't stand the thought that more than one person may have a differing point of view to theirs. Hence they try to insinuate that everyone who posts a differing viewpoint is really the same person. Forum paranoia is rife

 

[SpartacusRox]

To be fair - they are different users. Although both have been here before.

If Creatin Bob sounds familiar well.......

Maybe he is running from the Irish recession and has escaped to the land of opportunity!

 

[Lion of Flanders]

Sorry. What exactly do you mean?

He means that:

1) He's right, and
2) If you disagree with him, you are a fool.

 

[taiwan]

Wooh, thats pretty high...... If you need a backdated TUE give me a call

Well, the screen says 4, but I seem to remember it registering 9.9. Who trusts a wtfometer reading anyway. I don't.

I hate half truths, BTW. Sorry, carry on.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

Firstly - i am still awaiting the number of people who were in the Hospital room when Lance confessed to taking EPO & PED's.


Ah, so it wasn't 1/1000th as you said -also, what has a T/E ratio got to do with a positive for corticoids? I will give you a hint, why would you need a TUE if your result is not positive?

As for Ludo - actually he did not test positive as you "guess". I will allow you another shot.

You are the doctor, I'll defer to your expertise on T/E ratios and corticoids. I gave you the link to an article from 1999 referring to the LeMonde allegations. Lance didn't need a TUE, as the UCI confirmed that there was no infraction due to the concentration. Again, as I recall from eleven years ago, the concentration figure was a tiny fraction of the tolerance. The point is that there was no doping infraction and it wasn't Lance or the NYT saying it, it was the UCI. Now if you want to believe that the UCI has always been on the LA payroll and give him special treatment, well you are welcome to that fun little conspiracy theory.

As for Ludo, perhaps you have more info than I. My understanding at the time (newspaper and later cyclingnews.com) and today was that his team pulled him for not informing them of a substance that he took. That seemed to me like a preemptive move on a rider that had taken a banned substance and was likely to throw a positive. Again, if you have more info, you may provide it.

As for waiting on your "hospital confession" question, I did respond. Two, three, ten...it doesn't matter, the one credible witness was the doctor. Betsy, the Oakley gal, and whoever else aren't credible witnesses.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You are the doctor, I'll defer to your expertise on T/E ratios and corticoids. I gave you the link to an article from 1999 referring to the LeMonde allegations. Lance didn't need a TUE, as the UCI confirmed that there was no infraction due to the concentration. Again, as I recall from eleven years ago, the concentration figure was a tiny fraction of the tolerance. The point is that there was no doping infraction and it wasn't Lance or the NYT saying it, it was the UCI. Now if you want to believe that the UCI has always been on the LA payroll and give him special treatment, well you are welcome to that fun little conspiracy theory.

As for Ludo, perhaps you have more info than I. My understanding at the time (newspaper and later cyclingnews.com) and today was that his team pulled him for not informing them of a substance that he took. That seemed to me like a preemptive move on a rider that had taken a banned substance and was likely to throw a positive. Again, if you have more info, you may provide it.

As for waiting on your "hospital confession" question, I did respond. Two, three, ten...it doesn't matter, the one credible witness was the doctor. Betsy, the Oakley gal, and whoever else aren't credible witnesses.

For Dr. Nichols to be a credible witness he would have to be in the room to witness something?

Did Dr. Nichols say that Betsy was lying - or was a prepared written statement offered as his deposition?
So, I assume you are admitting you do not know the number of people that were in the room?


As for poor old Ludo, he was pulled by his team as he admitted to the doping control officer he had taken corticoids and was not in possesion of the required TUE - funny part is that later his test came back negative.

So - why would he need a TUE for corticoids and Lance doesn't?

BTW - I am not a Doctor.

 

[Hillavoider]

Lion of flanders as you are an expert on LA, can you tell me how does he keep his hematocrit level so high during the 3 weeks of the tour. All doctors and current knowledge say hematocrit levels should plumment over this time. Is he just blessed by god?

 

[Lion of Flanders]

For Dr. Nichols to be a credible witness he would have to be in the room to witness something?

Did Dr. Nichols say that Betsy was lying - or was a prepared written statement offered as his deposition?
So, I assume you are admitting you do not know the number of people that were in the room?


As for poor old Ludo, he was pulled by his team as he admitted to the doping control officer he had taken corticoids and was not in possesion of the required TUE - funny part is that later his test came back negative.

So - why would he need a TUE for corticoids and Lance doesn't?

BTW - I am not a Doctor.

Really? There is no sarcasm font, unfortunately.

Look, you have your big card to play on this confession thing. Just play it. This was years ago and I don't recall all the details. What I do recall is that supposedly Lance was asked by a doctor if he had taken any drugs, and he rattled them off.

The facts that I recall is that an independent body ruled that there wasn't enough evidence (preponderance of evidence, remember not "reasonable doubt") to indicate that Lance had used drugs.

Let's see if Kristin will have anything to say on the matter. Personally I doubt it. I'll let y'all hang on every word that comes out about Landis' confession in the coming weeks. The truth will come out and if it shows that Lance doped to win his Tours then so be it.

Meanwhile, instead of wringing your collective hands in glorious anticipation of Lance's downfall, I suggest y'all join me in July at the Tour. I'll be there riding my bike and watching the race. If you haven't done it, trust me its more fun than internet forums by a mile.