- Apr 27, 2009
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Hillavoider said:
He might be. Usain Bolt sure runs faster than everyone else (and he did it apparently on Chicken Mcnuggets!).
Nice chatting with all of you. Gotta go.....
He might be. Usain Bolt sure runs faster than everyone else (and he did it apparently on Chicken Mcnuggets!).
Nice chatting with all of you. Gotta go.....
theswordsman said:
...dude you are so sure that all of this is going to happen...as sure as some who thought that Obama's birth certificate or lack thereof would keep him out of the WH...
...the people that are tired of hiding what they know are the people with no financial stake in the process...or maybe they want/wanted one...
...you used to be a fan of Armstrong and he slighted you how?...if you put the guy on the pedestal of unquestioned omnipotence you set yourself up...this crap is'nt life or death my friend...these guys make millions upon millions, honestly or not...they could care less what we ruminate and banter about on forums...Armstrong could go down today or tomorrow but he'll still be better off than most of us could ever hope to be...these guys or not gods or disciples or saints...they are human...projecting our standards upon these guys is an exercise in futility...the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak...
...i've followed Lance since it all started and though i want to believe that his physiology alone powered all of his tour wins...i must face the fact that this is "possibly" not the case...and i say this in deference to Indurain and his run against proven dopers in the 90's...Pantani had a hematocrit of 64% in 1995...Indurain's climbing output was 445w that year a record equaled only by Pantani [98] and Riis[96], that would make Indurain the most powerful man to ever straddle a bicycle and no rider before Indurain's run was averaging over 400watts on the tour climbs...that's about where Indurain was from 91-93...i can suspect but i can't state with confidence that it is "possible" that Indurain joined the club after 1993, maybe after losing that final time trial to Rominger...if we are to believe that a clean Indurain was able to beat Rominger and the "Ferrari" class in the mid 90's then we must relent that Armstrong's wins are also believable...
...maybe there will be newer tests that will go back and open our eyes about a few riders we feel are currently above reproach...Armstrong ain't the only one with prior blood samples...one could question LeMond's curious iron injections after the Giro in 1989 where he finished well off the pace...how high would he have raised his hematocrit after those injections?...at that point in the season, and especially given his level of fatigue/training his Hct. would've had to have been on the low side...there was'nt any biological passport back then...
...
Dr. Maserati
BANNED
- Jun 19, 2009
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Lion of Flanders said:Really? There is no sarcasm font, unfortunately.
Look, you have your big card to play on this confession thing. Just play it. This was years ago and I don't recall all the details. What I do recall is that supposedly Lance was asked by a doctor if he had taken any drugs, and he rattled them off.
The facts that I recall is that an independent body ruled that there wasn't enough evidence (preponderance of evidence, remember not "reasonable doubt") to indicate that Lance had used drugs.
Let's see if Kristin will have anything to say on the matter. Personally I doubt it. I'll let y'all hang on every word that comes out about Landis' confession in the coming weeks. The truth will come out and if it shows that Lance doped to win his Tours then so be it.
Meanwhile, instead of wringing your collective hands in glorious anticipation of Lance's downfall, I suggest y'all join me in July at the Tour. I'll be there riding my bike and watching the race. If you haven't done it, trust me its more fun than internet forums by a mile.
Ah, sarcasm....... well at least you tried to bring something to this thread.
The 'independent body' as you call it, made no reference to whether LA doped or not - as once it was ruled that SCA Promotions were an 'insurer' to Lances bonus SCA were forced to pay.
Say a big 'Hey y'all' to 'Gree0232', Mark and the rest of the gang when you see them.
vrusimov said:
For Indurain it started here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=702mu0o3xXY
He had somehow lost 14 min but could just ride away from GL who was gutting it out..I don't believe he was this good but had been stuck with babysitter duty for Delgado.
redtreviso said:
Indurain and the 1990 Tour, he finished 10th @12mins and that was all lost on the stage to Alpe d'huez. He also lost a minute to LeMond in the TTT.
Indurain finished ahead of LeMond in all 3 long TTs in 90, he was the best rider in the Pyrenees and dropped out of the break on the stage to Villard-de-lans to try and help Delgado.
On the stage to Alpe d'Huez, Indurain was away with Thierry Claveyrolat in a break over the Col du Glandon but then waited on the group containing LeMond, Bugno, Delgado, he then rode flat out driving the group to the bottom of Alpe d'huez, he lost those 12mins on that one climb making it sound like he just sat up.
If Indurain had ridden his own race in 90, he could have possibly won or at least finished on the podium that year. I dont think many people would doubt to Indurain doping but as to when he hit the EPO, that TT in Luxembourg in 92 was amazing. Fignon described him as an E.T then so maybe he was hinting at something else. I think it was only a small number of guys on EPO in 90-92 but by 93-94 almost everyone was on it.
Is there anything, anything at all, on Indurain other than the fact he excelled?
With the likes of Armstrong and Pantani there are test results (to a greater or lesser degree of reliability) and anecdotal stuff but with Indurain we have nothing. So apart from the fact that he won what is there out there?
With the likes of Armstrong and Pantani there are test results (to a greater or lesser degree of reliability) and anecdotal stuff but with Indurain we have nothing. So apart from the fact that he won what is there out there?
- Aug 13, 2009
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simoni said:
Indurian used proven Doping doctors, Conconi and Padilla, for the key parts of his career. His teammate, Thomas Davy testified that there was an organized team wide doping program at Banesto.
Lion of Flanders said:Sorry, I didn't know what the BPC reference was about so I ignored it. I am who I am and I don't need to worry about what strangers on the internet think.
I have never bothered to spend time bantering with faceless mobs on the internet about cycling related issues, as it really is pointless, i.e. you can't change people's minds once they are set. Why do I strap on my helmet today? Who knows, I guess I just have always been annoyed at 1) Half truths that get told often enough so that they become accepted as facts, 2) Angry people who stand to gain from accusations being treated as credible witnesses, and 3) The idea that if an athlete is better than the rest (and some of the rest have been shown to have cheated), then the athlete must be a cheat.
Doesn't 'half truth' imply that it is at least partly true?
And how exactly do these angry people stand to gain so much from accusations?
Accusing LA hasn't done people much good in the past.
- Jun 24, 2009
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Johnny Rotten said:
Don´t leave out Emma, who had nothing to gain by telling the truth in Walsh´s "From Lance to Landis.
No, he couldn't prove them wrong by taking a polygraph test. I'm no Armstrong supporter, but I am a polygraph opponent. Polygraphs are only slightly more accurate than intuition at telling whether people lie. They can even be harmful because they lend a false sense of certainty to the tester. Also studies have shown that the results of a polygraph test is heavily influenced by the preconceived notions of the tester. If polygraphs were as accurate as you seem to believe you wouldn't need trials and jurys to determine guilt, you could just make the suspect take a polygraph test.Johnny Rotten said:
/Rant.
- Aug 13, 2009
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- Apr 3, 2009
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Lion of Flanders said:
Why don't you make your identity known? I made the majority of my calls instead of our attorney. It saved a lot on money. But I understand: attack the messanger when you can't discredit the message.
I was only notified of this post so sorry if the following has been posted. It reminds me of Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First?" These people can't keep their lies straight; I was laughing out loud. http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...mstrong-made-to-uci-for-a-sysmex-machine.html
You're wrong about me being a nutcase, though. Lance has told people I'm fat, ugly, jealous, bitter and stated that he doesn't know what Frankie sees in me. So nutcase doesn't quite fit.
- Apr 9, 2009
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elizab said:
Betsy I think they must mean you're crazy for not keeping your mouth shut and helping to enforce Omerta.
- Nov 7, 2009
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Betsy, don't waste your time on that Lion of Flanders moron. He's the resident Armstrong dingleberry picker.
I hope Lance and his hooligans apologize to you for everything they've done. From behind bars.
I hope Lance and his hooligans apologize to you for everything they've done. From behind bars.
- Apr 9, 2009
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Moose McKnuckles said:
The fact that he uses a confessed doper as his username tells us all we need to know about him.
elizab said:
Betsy.. if you are nuts, your nothing compared with some of the people around here..
Thanks as ever for having the courage and conviction to come and post around here.
Dim
I could not admire Betsy more for what the way she has carried herself these past number of years. She continually comes across as being balanced, articulate, courteous, honest and determined. Not once has her story changed. And for the record, from having seen photos, and Betsy I hope you don't mind me saying this, Betsy is the opposite of fat and ugly. So Lance is definitely clutching at straws on that one!!!
buckwheat
BANNED
- Sep 24, 2009
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Hey, Betsy, look, McQuaid and Stapleton implicate LA
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/sports/cycling/24cycling.html
“The sport of today is a completely different sport than it was five years ago, than it was 10 years ago, that I’m sure,” McQuaid said. “It’s unfortunate that Landis, a rider with some sort of an agenda, has chosen to try to diminish all the work we’ve been doing.”
Let's see, 2010 - 5 years = 2005, OK.
2010- 10 = 2000.
He's sure that the sport is completely different than in 2000 and 2005? I'll bet he is.
Another ringing endorsement of Pharmstrong from Stapleton.
For Stapleton, delving into the past to finger riders who may have doped has only hurt the sport’s tattered image.
“I believe that these guys that Landis named are playing by the rules and you have to judge them by the standards of today, and not look back to things that may have happened years ago,” Stapleton said. “I don’t think a witch hunt will serve any purpose.”
He added: “I’m all for the older generation racing and succeeding and passing the drug tests, but they don’t define the sport anymore. Lance Armstrong doesn’t define the sport anymore. There’s a new generation of riders and teams who operate under a whole new set of rules. I think the fans should stay tuned for that.”
Damn Bob, you're getting all twisted up in your own logic.
YOU seem to be saying that the older generation passing the drug tests doesn't mean a heck of a lot.
If they passed the drug tests, why should you be concerned that they "don't define the sport anymore?"
Then to single out Prance? But wait Bob, he passed the drug tests.
Dear Bob,
There is a statute of limitations on these matters. Why don't you and all the other frauds in Pro Cycling stop with your Mark McGwire routines and just
STFU!
Where were you Bob, when good people like Betsy, whose only "crime" was that they told the truth; were getting smeared by scumbags like Lance and when this *** Hincapie sat idly by, and watched LeMond get smeared?
Where the fcuk were you friggin hypocrites then when people's reputations and careers were being ruined?
EFF You!
Lion of Flanders said:
elizab said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/sports/cycling/24cycling.html
“The sport of today is a completely different sport than it was five years ago, than it was 10 years ago, that I’m sure,” McQuaid said. “It’s unfortunate that Landis, a rider with some sort of an agenda, has chosen to try to diminish all the work we’ve been doing.”
Let's see, 2010 - 5 years = 2005, OK.
2010- 10 = 2000.
He's sure that the sport is completely different than in 2000 and 2005?
I'll bet he is.Another ringing endorsement of Pharmstrong from Stapleton.
For Stapleton, delving into the past to finger riders who may have doped has only hurt the sport’s tattered image.
“I believe that these guys that Landis named are playing by the rules and you have to judge them by the standards of today, and not look back to things that may have happened years ago,” Stapleton said. “I don’t think a witch hunt will serve any purpose.”
He added: “I’m all for the older generation racing and succeeding and passing the drug tests, but they don’t define the sport anymore. Lance Armstrong doesn’t define the sport anymore. There’s a new generation of riders and teams who operate under a whole new set of rules. I think the fans should stay tuned for that.”
Damn Bob, you're getting all twisted up in your own logic.
YOU seem to be saying that the older generation passing the drug tests doesn't mean a heck of a lot.
If they passed the drug tests, why should you be concerned that they "don't define the sport anymore?"
Then to single out Prance? But wait Bob, he passed the drug tests.
Dear Bob,
There is a statute of limitations on these matters. Why don't you and all the other frauds in Pro Cycling stop with your Mark McGwire routines and just
STFU!
Where were you Bob, when good people like Betsy, whose only "crime" was that they told the truth; were getting smeared by scumbags like Lance and when this *** Hincapie sat idly by, and watched LeMond get smeared?
Where the fcuk were you friggin hypocrites then when people's reputations and careers were being ruined?
EFF You!
- Mar 18, 2009
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- Nov 7, 2009
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- May 20, 2010
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buckwheat said:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/24/sports/cycling/24cycling.html
“The sport of today is a completely different sport than it was five years ago, than it was 10 years ago, that I’m sure,” McQuaid said. “It’s unfortunate that Landis, a rider with some sort of an agenda, has chosen to try to diminish all the work we’ve been doing.”
Let's see, 2010 - 5 years = 2005, OK.
2010- 10 = 2000.
He's sure that the sport is completely different than in 2000 and 2005?
Another ringing endorsement of Pharmstrong from Stapleton.
For Stapleton, delving into the past to finger riders who may have doped has only hurt the sport’s tattered image.
“I believe that these guys that Landis named are playing by the rules and you have to judge them by the standards of today, and not look back to things that may have happened years ago,” Stapleton said. “I don’t think a witch hunt will serve any purpose.”
He added: “I’m all for the older generation racing and succeeding and passing the drug tests, but they don’t define the sport anymore. Lance Armstrong doesn’t define the sport anymore. There’s a new generation of riders and teams who operate under a whole new set of rules. I think the fans should stay tuned for that.”
Damn Bob, you're getting all twisted up in your own logic.
YOU seem to be saying that the older generation passing the drug tests doesn't mean a heck of a lot.
If they passed the drug tests, why should you be concerned that they "don't define the sport anymore?"
Then to single out Prance? But wait Bob, he passed the drug tests.
Dear Bob,
There is a statute of limitations on these matters. Why don't you and all the other frauds in Pro Cycling stop with your Mark McGwire routines and just
STFU!
Where were you Bob, when good people like Betsy, whose only "crime" was that they told the truth; were getting smeared by scumbags like Lance and when this *** Hincapie sat idly by, and watched LeMond get smeared?
Where the fcuk were you friggin hypocrites then when people's reputations and careers were being ruined?
EFF You!
Thanks for that. I feel the tide turning. It's the start of the day here in rainy Wellington, NZ, and that statement just made my day.
My name is Mike Anderson.
I'm proud of what I did and said. I'm tired of hiding. As engraved on one of the buildings at the University of Texas where I took a degree, "Ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free."
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