The truth about L.A

[Lion of Flanders]

Lemond didn't ride on the Z Team in 1989.

--

Would this be credible?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5508863

No it is not. Read the actual transcripts from Betsy's testimony, not just the segments that NPR would like you to read. This is a great example of how if the NYT, NPR, and who knows who else keeps writing it, it will be accepted as fact. The testimonies from these people are largely contradictory and simply do not stand when taken as a group. Individual testimony when selected by one side will always sound great. Under cross examination however, poor, inconsistent and spurious testimony is exposed for what it is.

As I wrote earlier, Betsy A. turned into such a nutcase about the whole issue that the attorney for the insurance company stopped taking her calls.

And yes, Lemond rode for ADR in 1989. The point remains the same...these silly stories abound about all successful riders.

 

[redtreviso]

No it is not. Read the actual transcripts from Betsy's testimony, not just the segments that NPR would like you to read. This is a great example of how if the NYT, NPR, and who knows who else keeps writing it, it will be accepted as fact. The testimonies from these people are largely contradictory and simply do not stand when taken as a group. Individual testimony when selected by one side will always sound great. Under cross examination however, poor, inconsistent and spurious testimony is exposed for what it is.

As I wrote earlier, Betsy A. turned into such a nutcase about the whole issue that the attorney for the insurance company stopped taking her calls.

And yes, Lemond rode for ADR in 1989. The point remains the same...these silly stories abound about all successful riders.

That story about waking someone up to avoid a heart attack was about Miguel Indurain.

 

[MacRoadie]

As I wrote earlier, Betsy A. turned into such a nutcase about the whole issue that the attorney for the insurance company stopped taking her calls..

Priceless. The most mentally imbalanced poster on this forum (in each and every manifestation you care to create) has the audacity to question someone else's sanity.

Do you know Betsy? Have you ever spoken to her? Asked her motivations? I'm guessing the (honest) answer to each of those questions is "no". Who knows what your delusional answer will be.

And yes, Lemond rode for ADR in 1989. The point remains the same...these silly stories abound about all successful riders.

I rest my case.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

Could you post a link to Lane having "a concentration of less than one one thousandth of what would be considered a positive" and why if this is the case he had not a TUE for it which was a requirement.

Then you might explain why did Ludo Dierckxsens get pulled from the same Tour for the same drug?

Here's the reference to the LeMonde article, which references only a 1/30th of the level for a "positive". I can't speak for LeMonde, but my figure is what I recall from the reports at the time. Perhaps I'm in error, but don't presume that doping stories in LeMonde are entirely accurate. The point remains the same. A tiny concentration detected that was not anywhere near what would be considered a "positive test"

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/jul99/jul22.shtml

Ludo was pulled from the race by his team, not the UCI or the race officials. They probably knew that he was about to throw a positive.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

That story about waking someone up to avoid a heart attack was about Miguel Indurain.

Perfect! I hadn't heard that one. But its more evidence for my point, i.e. that there are BS stories about all successful riders.

Miguel beat a bunch of dopers, Zulle, Riis, Virenque, Ugramov, Berzin, Dufeaux, etc, therefore he must have been a doper! Simple!

Was Miguel a doper? He might have been. There just doesn't seem to be (here comes that word again) credible evidence to support any doping claim.

 

[Anonymous]

Please ignore the troll. He needs more meds, not more attention.

 

[redtreviso]

Perfect! I hadn't heard that one. But its more evidence for my point, i.e. that there are BS stories about all successful riders.

Miguel beat a bunch of dopers, Zulle, Riis, Virenque, Ugramov, Berzin, Dufeaux, etc, therefore he must have been a doper! Simple!

Was Miguel a doper? He might have been. There just doesn't seem to be (here comes that word again) credible evidence to support any doping claim.

""There was one that supposedly came from a Z Team guy about how they had to check on Greg throughout the night in 1989 because his blood was so thick that they were worried his heart would stop"""

You haven't heard it??? You posted it and attributed it to LeMond. Do you remember when LeMond tested positive for probinicid in 1988 or when he put a vivarin in a peach?

 

[Lion of Flanders]

""There was one that supposedly came from a Z Team guy about how they had to check on Greg throughout the night in 1989 because his blood was so thick that they were worried his heart would stop"""

You haven't heard it??? You posted it and attributed it to LeMond. Do you remember when LeMond tested positive for probinicid in 1988 or when he put a vivarin in a peach?

Good Lord, you people are fun! I'll explain it to you: I heard it about Lemond, but others heard it about Miguel. It's 99.9% likely to be BS either way. Got it now?

What is your point? that Greg was a doper too? Let's strip him of his Tour wins because somebody said he put vivarin in a peach!

 

[erader]

Perfect! I hadn't heard that one. But its more evidence for my point, i.e. that there are BS stories about all successful riders.

Miguel beat a bunch of dopers, Zulle, Riis, Virenque, Ugramov, Berzin, Dufeaux, etc, therefore he must have been a doper! Simple!

Was Miguel a doper? He might have been. There just doesn't seem to be (here comes that word again) credible evidence to support any doping claim.

indurain tested positive for salbutamol in '92.

ed rader

 

[Maxiton]

Good Lord, you people are fun! I'll explain it to you: I heard it about Lemond, but others heard it about Miguel. It's 99.9% likely to be BS either way. Got it now?

What is your point? that Greg was a doper too? Let's strip him of his Tour wins because somebody said he put vivarin in a peach!

Mr. Lion of Flanders: would your initials by chance be . . . Lance Armstrong?

 

[redtreviso]

Good Lord, you people are fun! I'll explain it to you: I heard it about Lemond, but others heard it about Miguel. It's 99.9% likely to be BS either way. Got it now?

What is your point? that Greg was a doper too? Let's strip him of his Tour wins because somebody said he put vivarin in a peach!

Point istyping slowly for your benefit) You heard wrong. The peach story and probinicid are also not about LeMond.

 

[sars1981]

I see BPS has more or less stopped trying to defend Armstrong's innocence and has moved on to trying to proved we all have a psychological obsession with Armstrong's guilt. What a fool.

 

[red_flanders]

I see BPS has more or less stopped trying to defend Armstrong's innocence and has moved on to trying to proved we all have a psychological obsession with Armstrong's guilt. What a fool.

And accusing Lemond of doping with absolutely no evidence. Straight out of the doper playbook.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

indurain tested positive for salbutamol in '92.

ed rader

I didn't know that. What was his sanction?

@redteviso: How thick are you? The point I'm making is that there are a million stories around about doping and most are not true. If your point is that I don't have all of my phony doping stories straight, then you are spot on, i.e. I don't pay them any more attention than any other bit of nonsense.

 

[Oldman]

You're BPC and have been banned on this forum at least 40 times at this point. Give it a rest, and consider getting help.

This is beyond any emotional disorder. This person sounds like a PR flack. Someone that's paid to post opinions in a marketing plan. That would explain the time availablity and volume as they're paid by the word.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

This is beyond any emotional disorder. This person sounds like a PR flack. Someone that's paid to post opinions in a marketing plan. That would explain the time availablity and volume as they're paid by the word.

...types the guy with 1,000+ posts!

 

[redtreviso]

I didn't know that. What was his sanction?

@redteviso: How thick are you? The point I'm making is that there are a million stories around about doping and most are not true. If your point is that I don't have all of my phony doping stories straight, then you are spot on, i.e. I don't pay them any more attention than any other bit of nonsense.

So you were making a point by repeating a false story on purpose? Or you can apply any of those stories to all riders except your Lancypoo?

 

[Lion of Flanders]

So you were making a point by repeating a false story on purpose? Or you can apply any of those stories to all riders except your Lancypoo?

Here we go again:

1) There have been many false stories about many successful riders throughout history and together we identified some examples.
2) Lance Armstrong is a successful rider.
3) Thus, there are many stories about Lance Armstrong as well that aren't necessarily true.

Got it now? I assume on internet boards that many do not have English as their first language. Forgive me if I wasn't clear.

 

[Oldman]

...types the guy with 1,000+ posts!

It's taken me awhile and I use fewer words. I've also met Lance, Levi, have raced against them and have friends that rode with them. Much, too much is known. You know it too and can't admit it.

 

[TexPat]

What if all those stories are true?

 

[Creatine Bob]

Yes, I did hear that part. "I totally know I was there" or something similar. Did you read the actual under oath testimony that was given by Betsy Andreu in the arbitration hearing? I did. Lemond, and all the rest gave accounts of this and that, much of which was contradicted by the other party involved. It just isn't credible. These people's character should make one doubt their testimony. Do you recall the email from Betsy Andreu titled "Why I hate Lance Armstrong". This woman was so obsessed with LA that the attorney for the insurance company , i.e. the party that stood to gain from Lance being shown as a doper, stopped taking her calls!

Remember, this whole business from the arbitration hearing was decided by an independent party not just in favor of Lance, but an extra $2.5MM was awarded because the claims were so unfounded.

"Character assassination"? Indeed. It doesn't take much. What did Stephanie say about Kevin Livingston? "what a ***" or some such. Listen to the words...they say it all.

Let's assume Lance used EPO and other drugs. There must be credible witnesses at some point over all these years (what are we on 18 years now?). Landis states that the whole team, including Lance transfused in full view of the "bus driver". Let's find this guy. There must be dozens of people at least who were involved over the years.

We've all head stories. I've heard many stories about Greg Lemond that he was a doper. There was one that supposedly came from a Z Team guy about how they had to check on Greg throughout the night in 1989 because his blood was so thick that they were worried his heart would stop. Do I believe this crap? No, I do not. Does that mean that I know Greg was clean? No, it does not. However, like Lance and all the rest, I will assume that Greg was clean until some credible evidence surfaces to the contrary.

....and I have always thought that the all black Flanders flag is much cooler. I am new to this board, but I have been Lion of Flanders for more than a decade on boards around the web, so I'm sitting on solid ground We should agree to disagree, my friend.

Well said and good points. I think some folks let their dislike of the perceived person get in the way of rational thinking.

I too am new here - welcome.

 

[saganftw]

What if all those stories are true?

they are true because we believe they are true...just like we believe in god

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Solid. Three more muppets from the resident turd burglar.

 

[redtreviso]

I heard that Lance quit wearing testosterone patches on his scrotum after 1995..Other riders found a new spot too.

 

[TexPat]

Solid. Three more muppets from the resident turd burglar.

Sorry. What exactly do you mean?