The truth about L.A

[Anonymous]

Very amusing post Betsy.

One last post before I consider closing this thread as it's drifted so far.

Lion of Flanders is not likely BPC. Neither is Spartacus...

...but that doesn't mean BPC isn't around again. He can't stay away.

As far as making identities known, one suggestion to cleaning this place up from trolls is making that a requirement for posting. You (as in everyone reading this) can alleviate that possibility by putting your correct info in your profilenow. People should be proud of who they are anyway, right?

Someone threatened to rape my wife then kill me. Now, I realize he is just some mentally ill liar from Ohio, but what if he happened to live in Charlotte? No thanks.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

Not speculating, dim. Look, there are people like LoF and his incarnations whose sole purpose is to degrade the level of conversation and to spread misinformation and lies. This type of person doesn't follow rational discussion or debate. It's like debating foreign policy with a FoxNews reporter. They don't care about politeness or whatever. They're just transportation vessels for BS.

And Mr. McKnuckles is a paragon of politeness.

I'm not trying to change the minds of any of the half dozen regular posters on this "Clinic" forum. This little gang seem to all know each other (and I assume that they are independently wealthy or something as they seem to crank out a lot of posts every day) and certainly know that they are incontrovertibly correct.

There are others out there, however, lurking who might just be interested in an opinion not in line with the "Clinic Gestapo".

Maybe. It seems like we heard from a few several pages back.

Flame away if you must.

 

[Red Lobster]

I am seriously interested in why you hate Lance so much.

Really? It's not self-evident? Are you similarly perplexed as to why certain now penniless retirees hate Bernie Madoff?

 

[Cozy Beehive]

Latest tweet from Armstrong :

"Gr8 dinner at 41k ft w/ @annahansen, @maxarmstrong1, @johanbruyneel, @knollio, and richie. Departing for somewhwere remote in Europe"

Anyone know what the remote place could be? France?

 

[kurtinsc]

Really? It's not self-evident? Are you similarly perplexed as to why certain now penniless retirees hate Bernie Madoff?

Did Lance beat you in a race?

If not... I'm struggling to see the analogy.

 

[Creatine Bob]

Latest tweet from Armstrong :


Anyone know what the remote place could be? France?

You could always tweet him back and ask him where, or email him.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

Really? It's not self-evident? Are you similarly perplexed as to why certain now penniless retirees hate Bernie Madoff?

What? Madoff stole $Billions from people who trusted him. Lance Armstrong (perhaps) took drugs to help him win bike races. Frankie Andreu evidently also took drugs and had a pretty solid career racing his bicycle. I'm sorry, I just don't see anything close here.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And Mr. McKnuckles is a paragon of politeness.

I'm not trying to change the minds of any of the half dozen regular posters on this "Clinic" forum. This little gang seem to all know each other (and I assume that they are independently wealthy or something as they seem to crank out a lot of posts every day) and certainly know that they are incontrovertibly correct.

There are others out there, however, lurking who might just be interested in an opinion not in line with the "Clinic Gestapo".

Maybe. It seems like we heard from a few several pages back.

Flame away if you must.

You are not trying to change anyone's mind? Really?

How is it you and your previous name of 'Gree0232' only pop up on Armstrong threads and offer nothing original to the discussion.
You post misinformation - and when called out and shown that you have little knowledge of what you are talking about - talk about 'prosponderence of evidence'.... and then move on to the next talkingpont to repeat your misinformation.

Indeed there are many lurkers here - seeking correct information.

I really couldn't care who you are - but I do care about correct information, and will seek the correct information from those that offer it.
Unlike you - I do the same for all riders, a quick look to the Valverde threads will confirm this.

I would never suggest that I am "incontrovertibly correct" - but I know enough to know that you are not.

 

[Ripper]

I would never suggest that I am "incontrovertibly correct" - but I know enough to know that you are not.

WTF are you talking about Dr?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

WTF are you talking about Dr?

I was replying to 'Lion of Flanders' not to subtle barb in the moddle of his post.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

I was replying to 'Lion of Flanders' not to subtle barb in the moddle of his post.

Shall I point out how you guys are so sure that I am these other posters (BPS, etc?)

Did it ever occur to you that I may not be?

And no, I am not trying to change your mind (nor MooseKnuckles, nor BossHogg, nor the guy with the bloody smear avatar). I know that you guys are certain of the guilt of all riders that you deem dirty. I'll say it again for the umpteenth time: Maybe they are dopers, but I think its weak to call a rider a cheat without real proof.

Speaking of CVV, I wasted a bit of time on the "How Clean is Garmin" thread as well, suggesting (shock) that CVV might be a decent rider who is having some success late in his career and generally suggesting that the "they are doing well, so they must be cheating" argument is dubious. Opinions such as these are consistently mocked on this forum.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Shall I point out how you guys are so sure that I am these other posters (BPS, etc?)

Did it ever occur to you that I may not be?

And no, I am not trying to change your mind (nor MooseKnuckles, nor BossHogg, nor the guy with the bloody smear avatar). I know that you guys are certain of the guilt of all riders that you deem dirty. I'll say it again for the umpteenth time: Maybe they are dopers, but I think its weak to call a rider a cheat without real proof.

Speaking of CVV, I wasted a bit of time on the "How Clean is Garmin" thread as well, suggesting (shock) that CVV might be a decent rider who is having some success late in his career and generally suggesting that the "they are doing well, so they must be cheating" argument is dubious. Opinions such as these are consistently mocked on this forum.

"You Guys" - interesting how you put us all together. Yes, some assumed you were BPC, would you like me to show the post where I actually said you were not BPC?

And actually - you can change my mind, any new information I will study - I have done that with Vino, Valverde, Landis.
However I do not expect any of the information you produce to ever challenge my opinions.


FWIW - I only know the identity of one other poster here. That was when 'AlpeD'Huez' was made moderator and PM'ed me. I know the first names of 2 others, one as I realized they live quite close and the other I was able to provide information for on a separate issue.

 

[rata de sentina]

I was replying to 'Lion of Flanders' not to subtle barb in the muddle of his post.

There just fixed that up for you

 

[BikeCentric]

Did Lance beat you in a race?

If not... I'm struggling to see the analogy.

Weeelll, for those of us who are top-level amateur racers, Lance did perpetuate a system whereby we're pretty much forced to dope up if we wanted to go to the next level.

 

[kurtinsc]

Weeelll, for those of us who are top-level amateur racers, Lance did perpetuate a system whereby we're pretty much forced to dope up if we wanted to go to the next level.

So did a vast majority of other pro riders, right?

If everyone was doping when Lance came in... he probably had the same choice. He could toil as a nobody, or dope and have success. In general, I have trouble blaming riders for doping in that scenario... I think you have to lay the blame on those who are supposed to prevent doping for not doing a very good job.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So did a vast majority of other pro riders, right?

If everyone was doping when Lance came in... he probably had the same choice. He could toil as a nobody, or dope and have success. In general, I have trouble blaming riders for doping in that scenario... I think you have to lay the blame on those who are supposed to prevent doping for not doing a very good job.

....yes, especially when they are taking money from certain riders.

There was an oppurtunity back in 1999 that things may clean up after Festina. Riders appeared to be scrared of using during the Tour, well most riders.

 

[Hillavoider]

1999 was a pretty clean TDF after festina except that Lance was juiced to the eyeballs and won convincingly.

this is good to read http://velocitynation.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

sorry if linked before

 

[Anonymous]

Weeelll, for those of us who are top-level amateur racers, Lance did perpetuate a system whereby we're pretty much forced to dope up if we wanted to go to the next level.

and thats the trouble with the system, as long as the young riders cant be sure that anyone is clean, when they are told at 16-17 that that is the way it is and its the only way they can suceed it just drags them into it all.

One reason i give a little chear everytime a bikepure rider wins a race (whatever you think of the relative merits of bikepure). If one kid sees a bikepure rider win and thinks, so clean guys can come first, and chooses that path, then great.. trouble is, it takes a lot more than one.

 

[redtreviso]

....yes, especially when they are taking money from certain riders.

There was an oppurtunity back in 1999 that things may clean up after Festina. Riders appeared to be scrared of using during the Tour, well most riders.

Lance did toil as a nobody..except for the frenchman winning on bastille day esqe stage win after teammate Fabio Casartelli's death Lance was broom wagon foder. When people said Lance was a potential classics rider that was just a kind way of saying he was not tour material...Saying he was a possible classics rider was even generous.

 

[pedaling squares]

The truth about LA is that he started the number one fashion trend for douchebags.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

Lance did toil as a nobody..except for the frenchman winning on bastille day esqe stage win after teammate Fabio Casartelli's death Lance was broom wagon foder. When people said Lance was a potential classics rider that was just a kind way of saying he was not tour material...Saying he was a possible classics rider was even generous.

Fact check time, I'm afraid.

I believe you will find that Lance (based upon placings, not wins) was the most successful classics rider of 1995 and 1996 or somewhere close. Recall a second to Berzin in Liege in 1994, not to mention another second @ Liege to Richard in 1996 preceded by a win at F-W.

"Broom Wagon Fodder"? Perhaps you might recall Lance in an all day break a few days prior to Fabio's death where he eventually lost a two up sprint to Sergei Utchakov (sp)?

Lance never "toiled as a nobody" Good Lord, he was second in the Championship of Zurich in his second pro race. Remember when Miguel was trying to be the third man in history to win the Giro, Tour and WC in the same year? Unfortunately, a "nobody" named Lance Armstrong took the win and relegated Miguel to the Silver.

 

[Oldman]

and thats the trouble with the system, as long as the young riders cant be sure that anyone is clean, when they are told at 16-17 that that is the way it is and its the only way they can suceed it just drags them into it all.
One reason i give a little chear everytime a bikepure rider wins a race (whatever you think of the relative merits of bikepure). If one kid sees a bikepure rider win and thinks, so clean guys can come first, and chooses that path, then great.. trouble is, it takes a lot more than one.

Lance and many others took a route through the USA Cycling junior and senior program to get to the top. Many quit when made aware of the measures the competition were willing to take to be competitive. Many stayed on and they, their coaches and supporters gradually became competitive. Their interdependence as racers to USA Cycling officials are closely tied over that period of "growth". It's no surprise many just want to "move on for the good of the sport" and represent many of the statements about Floyd's disclosure and LA's status.
They all have a vested interest and cannot judge this situation. Like the UCI and other National federations some serious change will have to occur for any real hope. It's a weird circus that's being run and, in many ways; far from the sport we admire.

 

[Lion of Flanders]

1999 was a pretty clean TDF after festina except that Lance was juiced to the eyeballs and won convincingly.

Hmmm. Now that he's a drug cheat he "won convincingly". Its funny that back in the day, when people wanted to slag on Lance's first win, they never said he "won convincingly". They said:

No Ulrich
No Pantani
Were it not for Passage du Gois, and Zulle losing 6 minutes, he might not have won at all. (he won by what? 7:30?)

 

[redtreviso]

hey flanders..Is your annie leibovitz poster of Lance life size or wall size?

 

[Lion of Flanders]

hey flanders..Is your annie leibovitz poster of Lance life size or wall size?

Just trying to make sure that people stay honest with their hatred.

Actually, the only cycling art that I have on my walls are old stuff from the Tour and (the greatest sports photo in the history of sports photos) the shot og Lemond winning the Worlds in '89 over Konischev and Kelly.