Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE's)

[simoni]

. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

This is the crux as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, if you don' believe anyone is innocent then you'll have a different view. Personally I prefer to have a guardedly optimistic view on the world and, in that context, protection of the rights of the innocent is crucial.

 

[buckle]

More importantly I don't want to know. It's none of my business and it says a lot about the people that say privacy on such an issue doesn't matter. There is a difference between calling for transparency and wanting a breach of privacy on an athlete's medical records.

A TUE is a medical record?

A medical record is a person's entire medical history including medication, procedures, illnesses etc.

A TUE records at best (if legitimate) a snapshot in time. Worse case scenario it can suggest full on corruption. A TUE is not issued for you to go to the shops. It simply covers a precise snapshot in time when you might be glowing. The weakness of the TUE is the absence of any historical dimension - hence the biological passport.

 

[noddy69]

Re: Re:

All the leaks and with the athletes themselves saying that they are not ashamed, then why not make all info public so that no issue arises

Because it compromises the athletes' right to privacy.

This.

Simone Biles is a perfect example. She has ADHD, she doesn't want to have to discuss it and that's her choice. This leak has not only made it public knowledge, it has forced her to defend herself when she has done nothing wrong.


There is no doubt that the TUE system can be and is abused, but there are also many legitimate reasons for athletes to have them. The system seems to need changing, that would be a worthwhile discussion in here, rather than focussing on the athletes which is going on in the other threads.

I disagree.

I think athletes long lost the right to privacy. if they are taking medications which may affect performance the public has a right to know.

If a person does not want to declare their 'illness/medical disorder', then don't compete. Simples.

I dont think a minority of athletes are abusing it, i think the majority are.

ADHD is hardly an embarrassing disorder, now is it.

Sorry but I completely disagree. You have no more right to know what is wrong with an athlete than you have a right to know what is wrong with anyone you happen to walk past in the street. A persons' medical history is private and should remain so, to think otherwise is, frankly, disturbing to me.

It doesn't matter whether it is embarrassing or not, and I'll point out you can't presume to know what people find embarrassing, it's personal and should remain so. No one should have their medical history passed around and examined, especially when it leads to people with no knowledge of the subject making incorrect assumptions and throwing out accusations.

I agree the athlete has the right to keep it private- if they don't compete on drugs that can enhance performance.
If an athlete withdraws then fine, if not then it needs to be declared.

 

[Benotti69]

. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

This is the crux as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, if you don' believe anyone is innocent then you'll have a different view. Personally I prefer to have a guardedly optimistic view on the world and, in that context, protection of the rights of the innocent is crucial.

An athlete being asked to declare their TUEs is hardly a crime against their human rights. It is their choice to participate and why not have complete transparency as part of that choice. When i look at the most successful sports stars today, i dont see a guardedly optimistic view that they are competing clean! In fact is has been proven time and time again that these athletes are doping. So in the light of that, anyone wanting to compete has the choice to declare their TUEs and compete or treat their condition privately and not compete. Pretty simple.

 

[gooner]

. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

This is the crux as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, if you don' believe anyone is innocent then you'll have a different view. Personally I prefer to have a guardedly optimistic view on the world and, in that context, protection of the rights of the innocent is crucial.

An athlete being asked to declare their TUEs is hardly a crime against their human rights. It is their choice to participate and why not have complete transparency as part of that choice. When i look at the most successful sports stars today, i dont see a guardedly optimistic view that they are competing clean! In fact is has been proven time and time again that these athletes are doping. So in the light of that, anyone wanting to compete has the choice to declare their TUEs and compete or treat their condition privately and not compete. Pretty simple.

That's absurd.

A person's medical history is their own business, not yours or mine. Because of the abuse in some areas with TUEs, you don't infringe on the rights of innocent athletes who have genuine health concerns and who may feel uncomfortable with disclosing these things publicly.

Sport is losing perspective when it goes down that route.

 

[sniper]

any genuinely innocent athlete should take it up with IOC and WADA, not with the hackers.

 

[meat puppet]

I don't believe in genuine innocence amongst top athletes. But their right to privacy wins out anyhow as a point of principle. If the lack of total transparency is the cost of this, then so be it.

 

[python]

...decided to add my 2 pennies. unfortunately, the nice humanitarian ideals aren't linear.

i see 2 interlinked human rights here - the right to a tue and the right to its privacy.

1stly, the tue is in essence an exception from the strict anti-doping rules to use a banned substances IF and WHEN a health need is demonstrated. i strongly believe it is thus an important humanitarian principle. curiously, and this is not widely understood if known at all, while the rules have generally became tougher over the years, the use of the tue's has been relaxed. (i encourage everyone to visit the xc ski thread for a good example re. martin sundby's abuse of asthma meds). the problem is that while some indeed use the tue properly, many, if not the majority - particularly at the elite level - have found the ways to misuse it for a performance inhancment in addition to curing their ailments, if any. not good, not normal, not meant by the ideal...

2ndly, the right to privacy is also paramount, again, but it can get and does get abused often enough. call it misused if you will but the invocation often takes place to divert the attention from a questionable prescription in the 1st place.

it is a very sensitive and difficult issue to regulated and balance. including for wada. so, they while increasingly instituting longer banned lists and tougher sanctions, were in fact relaxing some tue rules. again, look no further that the most ubiquitous tue - for asthma.

this make no sense - yelling about a 'zero tolerance' from every roof top whilst rolling back a requirement for a tue if taken salbutamol is LESS THAN 1600 mcg/24 h

wada has to take some blame along with the expected human propensity to cheat.

---edit:
fixed the units in the 2nd to last line

 

[sniper]

^good point about privacy.

in my view, if you want to make a living as a top athlete then you have an easy choice: be transparent or be questioned.

 

[bikinggirl]

It is getting more and more evident that the UCI is corrupt and hiding lot of things. I would like to see Wiggins & Froome being excluded today for any further participation in professional bike racing for ever. Mr. Cookson should be fired right away as he is corrupt and useless and have done absolutely nothing positive for this sport.

 

[Benotti69]

. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

This is the crux as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, if you don' believe anyone is innocent then you'll have a different view. Personally I prefer to have a guardedly optimistic view on the world and, in that context, protection of the rights of the innocent is crucial.

An athlete being asked to declare their TUEs is hardly a crime against their human rights. It is their choice to participate and why not have complete transparency as part of that choice. When i look at the most successful sports stars today, i dont see a guardedly optimistic view that they are competing clean! In fact is has been proven time and time again that these athletes are doping. So in the light of that, anyone wanting to compete has the choice to declare their TUEs and compete or treat their condition privately and not compete. Pretty simple.

That's absurd.

A person's medical history is their own business, not yours or mine. Because of the abuse in some areas with TUEs, you don't infringe on the rights of innocent athletes who have genuine health concerns and who may feel uncomfortable with disclosing these things publicly.

Sport is losing perspective when it goes down that route.

Totally disagree. Sorry, but sport long ago lost its credibility and integrity.

I have not seen any embarrassing medical conditions come out in the hacking.

ADHD is not an embarrassing medical condition. For Biles to claim embarrassment is PR BS.

I think Python said it more eloquently than i, apu.

 

[thehog]

. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

This is the crux as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, if you don' believe anyone is innocent then you'll have a different view. Personally I prefer to have a guardedly optimistic view on the world and, in that context, protection of the rights of the innocent is crucial.

An athlete being asked to declare their TUEs is hardly a crime against their human rights. It is their choice to participate and why not have complete transparency as part of that choice. When i look at the most successful sports stars today, i dont see a guardedly optimistic view that they are competing clean! In fact is has been proven time and time again that these athletes are doping. So in the light of that, anyone wanting to compete has the choice to declare their TUEs and compete or treat their condition privately and not compete. Pretty simple.

That's absurd.

A person's medical history is their own business, not yours or mine. Because of the abuse in some areas with TUEs, you don't infringe on the rights of innocent athletes who have genuine health concerns and who may feel uncomfortable with disclosing these things publicly.

Sport is losing perspective when it goes down that route.

Over stating medical conditions to receive dosages similar to hospitalised patients for performance enhancement is not 'innocent', it's premeditated deceit.

Making up diseases like Badzhilla to cover for a dramatic transformations is not innocent and it's certainly not genuine.

 

[gooner]

. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

This is the crux as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, if you don' believe anyone is innocent then you'll have a different view. Personally I prefer to have a guardedly optimistic view on the world and, in that context, protection of the rights of the innocent is crucial.

An athlete being asked to declare their TUEs is hardly a crime against their human rights. It is their choice to participate and why not have complete transparency as part of that choice. When i look at the most successful sports stars today, i dont see a guardedly optimistic view that they are competing clean! In fact is has been proven time and time again that these athletes are doping. So in the light of that, anyone wanting to compete has the choice to declare their TUEs and compete or treat their condition privately and not compete. Pretty simple.

That's absurd.

A person's medical history is their own business, not yours or mine. Because of the abuse in some areas with TUEs, you don't infringe on the rights of innocent athletes who have genuine health concerns and who may feel uncomfortable with disclosing these things publicly.

Sport is losing perspective when it goes down that route.

Over stating medical conditions to receive dosages similar to hospitalised patients for performance enhancement is not 'innocent', it's premeditated deceit.

Making up diseases like Badzhilla to cover for a dramatic transformations is not innocent and it's certainly not genuine.

I'm talking about the general public release of TUEs across the board. No doubt there is genuine cases among those. That should stay a private issue for those athletes.

We live in a world where many want a trial by social media and where there's no thought whatsoever of the consequences afterwards.

 

[noddy69]

. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

This is the crux as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, if you don' believe anyone is innocent then you'll have a different view. Personally I prefer to have a guardedly optimistic view on the world and, in that context, protection of the rights of the innocent is crucial.

An athlete being asked to declare their TUEs is hardly a crime against their human rights. It is their choice to participate and why not have complete transparency as part of that choice. When i look at the most successful sports stars today, i dont see a guardedly optimistic view that they are competing clean! In fact is has been proven time and time again that these athletes are doping. So in the light of that, anyone wanting to compete has the choice to declare their TUEs and compete or treat their condition privately and not compete. Pretty simple.

That's absurd.

A person's medical history is their own business, not yours or mine. Because of the abuse in some areas with TUEs, you don't infringe on the rights of innocent athletes who have genuine health concerns and who may feel uncomfortable with disclosing these things publicly.

Sport is losing perspective when it goes down that route.

I dont agree with the last statement. In many elite sports there is millions at stake , sponsors involved , gambling, investors and the list goes on. If Athletes are being given drugs which require a TUE and are known to be performance enhancing then it is only right its declared. You can keep you're privacy if you so wish- you just dont get the drugs and get to compete. Health isn't compromised as it wont be published if you don't compete.

 

[gooner]

Money and sponsorship is neither here nor there about privacy on your medical side. And yes it does lose perspective when people put a price on a person's medical history being made public. Not to mention even if they are declared, you will still get mud thrown at athletes irrespective of whether it's genuine or not.

Again, if it's sensitive issue or a long term condition, why would a person declare? I wouldn't and what's more the people calling for these to be made public wouldn't either.

To say to these athletes in those situations, know your role and stay away from competing in elite sports if you don't declare, is wrong.

 

[noddy69]

Re:

Money and sponsorship is neither here nor there about privacy on your medical side. And yes it does lose perspective when people put a price on a person's medical history being made public. Not to mention even if they are declared, you will still get mud thrown at athletes irrespective of whether it's genuine or not.

Again, if it's sensitive issue or a long term condition, why would a person declare? I wouldn't and what's more the people calling for these to be made public wouldn't either.

To say to these athletes in those situations, know your role and stay away from competing in elite sports if you don't declare, is wrong.

I never said declare the condition- declare that you are using a TUE and for what drug. Keep the condition private if you so wish but those taking drugs outside the rules should declare it

 

[gooner]

Re: Re:

Money and sponsorship is neither here nor there about privacy on your medical side. And yes it does lose perspective when people put a price on a person's medical history being made public. Not to mention even if they are declared, you will still get mud thrown at athletes irrespective of whether it's genuine or not.

Again, if it's sensitive issue or a long term condition, why would a person declare? I wouldn't and what's more the people calling for these to be made public wouldn't either.

To say to these athletes in those situations, know your role and stay away from competing in elite sports if you don't declare, is wrong.

I never said declare the condition- declare that you are using a TUE and for what drug. Keep the condition private if you so wish but those taking drugs outside the rules should declare it

I think that would create more confusion if anything. I don't think you can do one without the other. It leaves things too much open for interpretation.

 

[veganrob]

. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

This is the crux as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, if you don' believe anyone is innocent then you'll have a different view. Personally I prefer to have a guardedly optimistic view on the world and, in that context, protection of the rights of the innocent is crucial.

An athlete being asked to declare their TUEs is hardly a crime against their human rights. It is their choice to participate and why not have complete transparency as part of that choice. When i look at the most successful sports stars today, i dont see a guardedly optimistic view that they are competing clean! In fact is has been proven time and time again that these athletes are doping. So in the light of that, anyone wanting to compete has the choice to declare their TUEs and compete or treat their condition privately and not compete. Pretty simple.

That's absurd.

A person's medical history is their own business, not yours or mine. Because of the abuse in some areas with TUEs, you don't infringe on the rights of innocent athletes who have genuine health concerns and who may feel uncomfortable with disclosing these things publicly.

Sport is losing perspective when it goes down that route.

And who were the innocent athletes?

 

[Benotti69]

. Of course there is abuse with the TUE system, but yet in the disclose of this, an innocent athlete with a genuine health concern could have mud thrown at them. I don't think that's right.

This is the crux as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, if you don' believe anyone is innocent then you'll have a different view. Personally I prefer to have a guardedly optimistic view on the world and, in that context, protection of the rights of the innocent is crucial.

An athlete being asked to declare their TUEs is hardly a crime against their human rights. It is their choice to participate and why not have complete transparency as part of that choice. When i look at the most successful sports stars today, i dont see a guardedly optimistic view that they are competing clean! In fact is has been proven time and time again that these athletes are doping. So in the light of that, anyone wanting to compete has the choice to declare their TUEs and compete or treat their condition privately and not compete. Pretty simple.

That's absurd.

A person's medical history is their own business, not yours or mine. Because of the abuse in some areas with TUEs, you don't infringe on the rights of innocent athletes who have genuine health concerns and who may feel uncomfortable with disclosing these things publicly.

Sport is losing perspective when it goes down that route.

And who were the innocent athletes?

All the unicorns that Gooner supports.

 

[bigcog]

Re:

To me the simple thing is that the TUE system has to be changed and Froome is a perfect and simple example : he only used it twice in 9 years it seems. My point would simply be, why then did'nt he retire from the 2014 Romandie and the other race to be healed for what he had at the time ? It surely wouln't have broken his career would it ?

There could be many less TUEs, or rather most of the those TUEs should have been assorted with a work stoppage period : the doctor prescribes a medication allowing the athlete to get better, in the meanwhile, he rests.. This is exactly the same impression I had yesterday with Serena Williams' shitty 2014 spring with lots of med : just stop competition, get your TUE to get healed and then go back to the sport... That would be so much simpler.

It appears Froome has decided that is the best approach (or carrying on despite illness without a TUE) given he turned one down for the final week of the TDF 2015 when he was ill even though Sky apparently saying he should use one. It makes for a potentially interesting/conflicted team - rider ( employer - employee) dynamic ?

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Regarding the privacy point:

Paralympic athletes need to make public their aflictions to be able to compete. In fact, the name of the competition includes the athletes' pathology. Nobody demands privacy for them. Because it's necessary, so that the competition is fair.

The same principle should apply to sick people who wish to compete with healthy people. One can debate if they should be allowed (the same way the Pistorious participation was dubious/debatable: legally using a performance enhancing device). If the authorities do decide to let the sick ones use forbidden drugs so that they can compete with the healthy ones (my position is that no, they should have a special category together with the paralympics, so that people with the same disability compete with their peers), then everything should be made public, so the spectators can distinguish who is who (in a way, who has "human legs" and who doesn't)

It's just unfortunate that we need a bunch of fancy hackers to bring justice and clarity to all of this.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm talking about the general public release of TUEs across the board. No doubt there is genuine cases among those. That should stay a private issue for those athletes.

We live in a world where many want a trial by social media and where there's no thought whatsoever of the consequences afterwards.

I can only think that STDs would cause embarrassment to an athlete. But anything that is a banned substance and requires a TUE should be made public or the athletes retires from competition till the TUE has elapsed.

The above post nails it by AlbineVespuzzio. Paralympians are required to forgo their privacy. End of.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Maybe it's because I have a medical background but omg this discussion makes me want to claw at my face. Everyone's medical history should be *private* unless they themselves want to make it public and blackmailing someone into releasing their medical history is extremely unethical.

 

[python]

provided the facts you stated are correct, it was a very interesting point, vespuzzio ! i, as likely most sports fans, dont follow the paralympics. thus, declaring their medical condition as a prerequisite for competing is probably going to surprise most fans.

it remains a good question to the privacy advocates (or better yet, their lawyers) - and i mean it in a non-confrontational way, why the right to personal privacy of paralympians would be less cherished than the right of 'healthy' olympians ?

it puzzles me a great deal.

 

[LaFlorecita]

By requiring athletes to make their TUEs public if they want to compete, you are effectively asking those with embarrassing or personal issues (e.g. STDs, mental disorders, fertility issues) to choose between 3 options:
- make this embarrassing or personal issue known to potentially every single person on the planet
- give up on a part of your career at best or your entire career at worst
- compete without the necessary medication with all the possible dangers and consequences

If you think it is ethical to demand athletes to make such a decision only because you're obsessed with transparency, I suggest you sit down for a moment and reconsider your standards and values.