Thomas Dekker comeback thread

[theyoungest]

I pray to God Kelderman is a great bike handler.

I'm not too sure about that... he's broken the same collar bone twice in his short career as an espoir, for instance.

Dekker definitely looks like he could shed a few pounds, but good to see him back.

 

[icefire]

we're dutch, falling is in our DNA.

We're also good at importing foreigners. The table tennis ladies who are chinese. The kenian woman athlete who runs for the netherlands, etc..
Maybe we should import a very talented Spaniard and let him win the Tour

You sort of did it 25 years ago. He won the tour after going back to Spain

 

[zapata]

Niko Eeckhout? He must be a hundred years old by now? Glad to see he's still winning races. And welcome back to Dekker, I always sort of liked him, wish him a good and long career.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I'm not too sure about that... he's broken the same collar bone twice in his short career as an espoir, for instance.

Dekker definitely looks like he could shed a few pounds, but good to see him back.

He's now at 73kg, his best weight is 69kg.

When he was suspended and went partying he weight 83kg at max

 

[Spine Concept]

Gesink isn't a poor bike handler. Sometimes luck simply isn't on your side.

I never said he was a poor bike handler, I just hope Kelderman is a great one. As far as luck goes, Gesink has gotten the short-end of the stick more often than not. However, this is getting ridiculous, both Tours and the Vuelta not to mention other races where he fell and ruined his chances to end in a better GC position. Can that only be pinned down to bad luck?

 

[Spine Concept]

I'm not too sure about that... he's broken the same collar bone twice in his short career as an espoir, for instance.

Dekker definitely looks like he could shed a few pounds, but good to see him back.

I was afraid of that. I still think he'll be big.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I look forward to his 2012 season...

 

[auscyclefan94]

I never said he was a poor bike handler, I just hope Kelderman is a great one. As far as luck goes, Gesink has gotten the short-end of the stick more often than not. However, this is getting ridiculous, both Tours and the Vuelta not to mention other races where he fell and ruined his chances to end in a better GC position. Can that only be pinned down to bad luck?

Mostly bad luck but he is a lanky guy so looks a little uncoordinated.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Gesink isn't a poor bike handler. Sometimes luck simply isn't on your side.

luck is a law of nature. it's something you have in your own hands basically. if a rider crashes all the time no matter how you can disregard it as bad luck but in reality it's the creation of reality with your own mind, fear of crashing

anyway. I can't wait for thomas to return to serious racing. he's the only dutch chance to win a gt. he was always the biggest talent netherlands had in at least 20 years with kai reus.

 

[Midnightfright]

Good luck to guy, he's made a mistake messed up done his time now let's hope he can get back to where he was

 

[Andrichuk]

Good luck to guy, he's made a mistake messed up done his time now let's hope he can get back to where he was

Exactly and I would assume there is less doping going on now then when he was racing before, so I hope he can get back up there.

 

[theyoungest]

luck is a law of nature. it's something you have in your own hands basically. if a rider crashes all the time no matter how you can disregard it as bad luck but in reality it's the creation of reality with your own mind, fear of crashing

Yeah right. If two guys crash in front of you, it's your fear of crashing that takes you down...

Maybe it's the positioning, but what more can you do, with a teammate in front of you, and a teammate behind you.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah right. If two guys crash in front of you, it's your fear of crashing that takes you down...

Maybe it's the positioning, but what more can you do, with a teammate in front of you, and a teammate behind you.

What you can do is ride closer to the front. Evans & JVDB are generally seen not far behind the guys leading the peleton. They haven't fallen yet (unlike Wiggins, Contador, Gesink...). Armstrong usually was also in the front of the peleton, didn't fall for years, except in a mountain stage. Last year he didn't ride in the front, and he went down more than he ever did combined. Statistically, the more in front you ride, the fewer guys there are to fall over. I'm not saying Gesink is riding in the back, but maybe still too far back nevertheless? Sometimes it can be a matter of a couple of places (see crash stage 1), but matter it does.

 

[will10]

What you can do is ride closer to the front. Evans & JVDB are generally seen not far behind the guys leading the peleton. They haven't fallen yet (unlike Wiggins, Contador, Gesink...). Armstrong usually was also in the front of the peleton, didn't fall for years, except in a mountain stage. Last year he didn't ride in the front, and he went down more than he ever did combined. Statistically, the more in front you ride, the fewer guys there are to fall over. I'm not saying Gesink is riding in the back, but maybe still too far back nevertheless? Sometimes it can be a matter of a couple of places (see crash stage 1), but matter it does.

I agree with you to a point, but yesterday's Brajkovic/Gesink crash wasn't too far back at all. But you do make your own luck to some extent.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I agree with you to a point, but yesterday's Brajkovic/Gesink crash wasn't too far back at all. But you do make your own luck to some extent.

Even the first rider can crash. The chance of it happening is just a lot smaller the further you move up the peleton. The guy in first can fall due to his own mistake or the rider behind him. The one in second place already has 50% more chance of falling because he can fall due to his own mistake, the rider behind him and the rider in front of him. If you ride in 10th position, there are basically 11 people that can make you crash. Of course not everyone can ride in front, and most GC contenders don't want too ride to far in front to save energy, so it's looking for the right balance. But if you fall more often than not, maybe you still haven't found that balance. This is just taking positioning into account, not bike handling, which is still a different matter.

PS: as far as upcoming Dutch talents go, i like Kruijswijk a lot. Saw him on Dutch tv this week, seems like he's got his things in order, down to earth, calm, focused...

 

[The Hitch]

Great to see Dekker back.

Gesink isn't a poor bike handler. Sometimes luck simply isn't on your side.

I agree with you but the a popular opinion on these boards seems to be that a riders time is entirely down to his own abilities. Someone crashes into you, its because your a poor bikehandler. A wheel puncture - should have chosen a better bike. Just like a riders ttt time is entirely down to his itt ability

Lots on here do believe that Nibali wasnt given the Vuelta by an unfortunate crash but rather that he made up the climbing deficit to Anton with a high bike handling advantage.

I never said he was a poor bike handler, I just hope Kelderman is a great one. As far as luck goes, Gesink has gotten the short-end of the stick more often than not. However, this is getting ridiculous, both Tours and the Vuelta not to mention other races where he fell and ruined his chances to end in a better GC position. Can that only be pinned down to bad luck?

Some are just more unlucky than others.

 

[gerddk]

Has anybody read Thomas Dekker's book? I did and i found it a great read. Thomas couldn't live up to the exagerated high expectations in Holland. Now that Geesink, Mollema and Kruijswijk have emerged, Dekker will have less stress and can perform better.

I hope he can ride for Garmin.

Somebody here said that Dekker is Holland's most likely candidate to win a Grand Tour. I don't agree with that, both Gesink and Kruijswijk are better in the high mountains. Dekker himself admits in his book that the high mountains are his weak point. I see Dekker as a more talented (but with less fighting spirit) version of Vinokourov. Vinokourov is very good, but once mountains excede 1.800 meters he has problems. Dekker has the same problems IMO.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Has anybody read Thomas Dekker's book? I did and i found it a great read. Thomas couldn't live up to the exagerated high expectations in Holland. Now that Geesink, Mollema and Kruijswijk have emerged, Dekker will have less stress and can perform better.

I hope he can ride for Garmin.

Somebody here said that Dekker is Holland's most likely candidate to win a Grand Tour. I don't agree with that, both Gesink and Kruijswijk are better in the high mountains. Dekker himself admits in his book that the high mountains are his weak point. I see Dekker as a more talented (but with less fighting spirit) version of Vinokourov. Vinokourov is very good, but once mountains excede 1.800 meters he has problems. Dekker has the same problems IMO.

I pretty much agree.
He is a pretty awesome alrounder, could own in stage races.. But GT's I never thought as much.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yeah right. If two guys crash in front of you, it's your fear of crashing that takes you down...

Maybe it's the positioning, but what more can you do, with a teammate in front of you, and a teammate behind you.

you are too simple to understanbd this, never mind

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Even the first rider can crash. The chance of it happening is just a lot smaller the further you move up the peleton. The guy in first can fall due to his own mistake or the rider behind him. The one in second place already has 50% more chance of falling because he can fall due to his own mistake, the rider behind him and the rider in front of him. If you ride in 10th position, there are basically 11 people that can make you crash. Of course not everyone can ride in front, and most GC contenders don't want too ride to far in front to save energy, so it's looking for the right balance. But if you fall more often than not, maybe you still haven't found that balance. This is just taking positioning into account, not bike handling, which is still a different matter.

PS: as far as upcoming Dutch talents go, i like Kruijswijk a lot. Saw him on Dutch tv this week, seems like he's got his things in order, down to earth, calm, focused...

yeah and boring as hell. I've seen vegetables with more charisma and flair than him

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Has anybody read Thomas Dekker's book? I did and i found it a great read. Thomas couldn't live up to the exagerated high expectations in Holland. Now that Geesink, Mollema and Kruijswijk have emerged, Dekker will have less stress and can perform better.

I hope he can ride for Garmin.

Somebody here said that Dekker is Holland's most likely candidate to win a Grand Tour. I don't agree with that, both Gesink and Kruijswijk are better in the high mountains. Dekker himself admits in his book that the high mountains are his weak point. I see Dekker as a more talented (but with less fighting spirit) version of Vinokourov. Vinokourov is very good, but once mountains excede 1.800 meters he has problems. Dekker has the same problems IMO.

vino is actually pretty good also in 2000+ climbs. anyway good luck to find maybe 2 or 3 climbs in a gt exceeding 1800 metres, so it's not that important, it used to be more important

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

you are too simple to understanbd this, never mind

ahhh yes, it is a shame we don't all share your brilliant insight into the cycling world.

You too often let your personal feelings towards a rider cloud your judgement.
Or more likely I'm too simple to understand your logic also.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

it has nothing to do with cycling. it's a rule of live, why you think in japan luck is considered an ability like charisma and intelligence?

 

[theyoungest]

you are too simple to understanbd this, never mind

Lol. This is the best argument I've heard from you yet.

Oh wait, it isn't an argument. Blaaskaak.

 

[Spine Concept]

Great to see Dekker back.



I agree with you but the a popular opinion on these boards seems to be that a riders time is entirely down to his own abilities. Someone crashes into you, its because your a poor bikehandler. A wheel puncture - should have chosen a better bike. Just like a riders ttt time is entirely down to his itt ability

Lots on here do believe that Nibali wasnt given the Vuelta by an unfortunate crash but rather that he made up the climbing deficit to Anton with a high bike handling advantage.



Some are just more unlucky than others.

I can understand that, however, my contention is how many more times will he have to take a tumble in order to reach a general concession that the fault may not lay with bad luck alone. Nibali's case is an isolated one, Gesink's is a recurring theme.
I'm probably just too frustrated by the fact that Gesink crashes so much, I know it's not always his fault but it's like a waiting game with him all the time. Dreadful for a supporter.