Thomas Dekker comeback thread

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

No, because that's what actually happened

I didn't even watch that episode. He has done nothing to prove he's worth a big contract with a WT Team. Disgusting how people like him and Valverde find a big team so easily when people like Schumacher, Rebellin, Michael Rasmussen, Floyd Landis, etc are kept out of the WT for eternity.

What's disgusting, though? Valverde and Dekker finding a good team, or Heras and Rebellin being blacklisted by the UCI? I'd say the latter is, not the first. There are many dopers that didn't and won't get punished. At least Valverde and Dekker did their 2 years. Sure, Mosquera and others are much worse off, but then again for many active riders it's the complete opposite.

 

[El Pistolero]

What's disgusting, though? Valverde and Dekker finding a good team, or Heras and Rebellin being blacklisted by the UCI? I'd say the latter is, not the first. There are many dopers that didn't and won't get punished. At least Valverde and Dekker did their 2 years. Sure, Mosquera and others are much worse off, but then again for many active riders it's the complete opposite.

The first is disgusting because the latter is what happens. I don't think anyone coming of a ban deserves to be in the WT right away. 1 year with a smaller team seems a good proposal to me. If they had good results with that team then they won't find it hard to find a WT team. But let them at least sweat a little bit for their mistakes... Also if they test positive again that year at least the big sponsors won't be the victim of it.

 

[maltiv]

No, because that's what actually happened

I didn't even watch that episode. He has done nothing to prove he's worth a big contract with a WT Team. Disgusting how people like him and Valverde find a big team so easily when people like Schumacher, Rebellin, Michael Rasmussen, Floyd Landis, etc are kept out of the WT for eternity.

It's not really that surpising though. Dekker was caught for doping and admitted it (partly). Valverde wasn't even caught for doping but was clearly implicated in OP, but he has now taken his punishment (+4 years of court ****). Schumacher on the other hand tested positive for CERA both at TDF and at the Olympics, in addition to testing positive for amphetamine and being caught driving over the speed limit with the substance in his body. Not exactly a guy you get sympathy for. Yet he hasn't admitted anything (I think). As for Rebellin, the biggest problem is that it just shouldn't be possible to come back at 40, after a 2 years break, and then still be winning.

Rasmussen...well, using "I was cheating on my wife!" as an excuse for breaking the whereabout-rules, not much sympathy there...but clearly this belongs in the clinic.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's not really that surpising though. Dekker was caught for doping and admitted it (partly). Valverde wasn't even caught for doping but was clearly implicated in OP, but he has now taken his punishment (+4 years of court ****). Schumacher on the other hand tested positive for CERA both at TDF and at the Olympics, in addition to testing positive for amphetamine and being caught driving over the speed limit with the substance in his body. Not exactly a guy you get sympathy for. Yet he hasn't admitted anything (I think). As for Rebellin, the biggest problem is that it just shouldn't be possible to come back at 40, after a 2 years break, and then still be winning.

Rasmussen...well, using "I was cheating on my wife!" as an excuse for breaking the whereabout-rules, not much sympathy there...but clearly this belongs in the clinic.

Valverde never admitted to doping even if it was obvious to everyone he was doping. Thomas Dekker is a liar as well and has never told the whole story.

Sure the Chicken never admitted to doping, but did Valverde ever do that? Thomas Dekker can't deny he never did doping because he actually tested positive for EPO and the UCI was suspicious of him for quite some time already which proves he doped throughout his entire career. If he was caught out like the Chicken and Valverde he'd still be denying that he ever used doping.

 

[theyoungest]

Valverde never admitted to doping even if it was obvious to everyone he was doping. Thomas Dekker is a liar as well and has never told the whole story.

Sure the Chicken never admitted to doping, but did Valverde ever do that? Thomas Dekker can't deny he never did doping because he actually tested positive for EPO and the UCI was suspicious of him for quite some time already which proves he doped throughout his entire career. If he was caught out like the Chicken and Valverde he'd still be denying that he ever used doping.

Yes, one naturally follows from the other

Why did you think they went back and tested a sample from late 2007? Apparently that's when he had suspicious blood values, not at another point in time.

 

[boomcie]

Going to love posting in this thread.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Valverde never admitted to doping even if it was obvious to everyone he was doping. Thomas Dekker is a liar as well and has never told the whole story.

Sure the Chicken never admitted to doping, but did Valverde ever do that? Thomas Dekker can't deny he never did doping because he actually tested positive for EPO and the UCI was suspicious of him for quite some time already which proves he doped throughout his entire career. If he was caught out like the Chicken and Valverde he'd still be denying that he ever used doping.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yes, one naturally follows from the other

Why did you think they went back and tested a sample from late 2007? Apparently that's when he had suspicious blood values, not at another point in time.

He had suspicious blood values at the Tour of Suisse 2008

That's why they retested his old samples proving that he used doping throughout his career till at least 2008. Who knows, he might have been clean in 2009. Proving how useless he really is

 

[theyoungest]

He had suspicious blood values at the Tour of Suisse 2008

That's when the rumours about his blood values started, yes.

That's why they retested his old samples proving that he used doping throughout his career till at least 2008.

This is just nonsense.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The first is disgusting because the latter is what happens. I don't think anyone coming of a ban deserves to be in the WT right away. 1 year with a smaller team seems a good proposal to me.

Perhaps you failed to notice, but Dekker didn't come straight back to the World Tour. He spent half a year with the Chipotle Development team, in what was clearly intended as a kind of trial run.

 

[El Pistolero]

That's when the rumours about his blood values started, yes.


This is just nonsense.

I guess Contador just doped for clen during the Tour then

Boy, you're gullible. Dekker even admitted to having doped till summer of 2008.

 

[El Pistolero]

Perhaps you failed to notice, but Dekker didn't come straight back to the World Tour. He spent half a year with the Chipotle Development team, in what was clearly intended as a kind of trial run.

A trial of run in what he proved what really? Garmin would be better of in giving Davide Rebellin a one year contract.

And that's still a half year too early in my opinion.

 

[theyoungest]

I guess Contador just doped for clen during the Tour then

Boy, you're gullible. Dekker even admitted to having doped till summer of 2008.

It is possible to not be a fanboy and still not make up complete nonsense out of a few semi-facts. Really, it is.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

A trial of run in what he proved what really? Garmin would be better of in giving Davide Rebellin a one year contract

A trial run in which they were, at least according to Vaughters, able to subject him to massive testing. Also able to see that he was extremely serious about coming back and willing to put in the grunt work on a lower tier team to prove it.

He didn't get strong results, but I very much doubt if they expected him to get such results, given that he'd been out for two years and given the nature of his race programme. They wanted to get a good long look at his attitude and his tests.

I really don't see what the objection is. He didn't just jump straight back in at the top, unlike, say for instance, Valverde. He did get a clear route to come back to a big team quickly, but that's not quite the same thing. And it seems that he wasn't signed to Garmin on a big money, team leader's contract. It's highly unlikely that he'll be their main leader in any major race in the first half of next year. He'll initially be given a shot in small races and also some domestique rides for the likes of Dan Martin and a chance to build his form back to whatever his level turns out to be. Why would you object to that? Do you think he should be cast into the outer darkness forever? Is it that you'd be fine with him spending 12 months on the Chipotle team instead of 6?

 

[El Pistolero]

It is possible to not be a fanboy and still not make up complete nonsense out of a few semi-facts. Really, it is.

Of course Thomas Dekker was totally clean for all his big wins in his career and only started doping when he couldn't magically win anymore and then blame it all on his injuries.

Whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose. He's just every bit as damaged goods as Schumacher and Rebellin.

 

[El Pistolero]

A trial run in which they were, at least according to Vaughters, able to subject him to massive testing. Also able to see that he was extremely serious about coming back and willing to put in the grunt work on a lower tier team to prove it.

He didn't get strong results, but I very much doubt if they expected him to get such results, given that he'd been out for two years and given the nature of his race programme. They wanted to get a good long look at his attitude and his tests.

I really don't see what the objection is. He didn't just jump straight back in at the top, unlike, say for instance, Valverde. He did get a clear route to come back to a big team quickly, but that's not quite the same thing. And it seems that he wasn't signed to Garmin on a big money, team leader's contract. It's highly unlikely that he'll be their main leader in any major race in the first half of next year. He'll initially be given a shot in small races and also some domestique rides for the likes of Dan Martin and a chance to build his form back to whatever his level turns out to be. Why would you object to that? Do you think he should be cast into the outer darkness forever? Is it that you'd be fine with him spending 12 months on the Chipotle team instead of 6?

Simple, because he hasn't proven to be ready for a WT level. Yeah, I'd be fine if he spend 12 months on the Chipotle team instead of 6. You have to draw the line somewhere on these kind of things even if it's a completely arbitrary line(and have you ever heard of someone signing 6 month contracts?). Tests don't mean anything, you need to be able to do it in actual races.

As for the reason he's signed with Garmin... JV doesn't have a lot of money anymore and some big cyclists left his team, so he abandons most of his doping ethics and signs who ever he can get his hands on. But you're right of course in saying that he didn't get a big money, team leader contract. Even if Garmin wanted to, they don't have the money for it.

Movistar also stated already that Valverde won't earn as much as before his ban, so there's that. Still not good enough imo. I wouldn't mind seeing him in Movistar's continental team for a year.

 

[boomcie]

It is possible to not be a fanboy and still not make up complete nonsense out of a few semi-facts. Really, it is.

It's also possible to not be a fanboy and make up complete nonsense on a regular basis. I testify.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Simple, because he hasn't proven to be ready for a WT level. Yeah, I'd be fine if he spend 12 months on the Chipotle team instead of 6. You have to draw the line somewhere on these kind of things even if it's a completely arbitrary line(and have you ever heard of someone signing 6 month contracts?). Tests don't mean anything, you need to be able to do it in actual races.

Tests mean quite a lot when it comes to professional cycling. If Garmin got Dekker on a domestique's wage, after testing the hell out of him, they are probably pretty certain that they got a good deal. He might be able to turn those test results into race wins, in which case everyone would be happy. Or he might just be able to turn them into a lot of bottles fetched in hilly races, in which case Garmin will at least be satisfied. That's the benefit of getting him on what appears to be a domestique's wage: It will be very surprising if, given his tests, he doesn't at least perform as a useful domestique and so they aren't taking much of a gamble in terms of performance.

As for their ethical stance, they have always been very clear that they are not about only hiring riders who have never doped. Their stance is that they want to provide a doping-free environment for riders now. Dekker should fit in pretty comfortably alongside, for instance, Millar in that regard. In so far as they are taking a gamble however it is on this point.

 

[theyoungest]

Of course Thomas Dekker was totally clean for all his big wins in his career and only started doping when he couldn't magically win anymore and then blame it all on his injuries.

Whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose. He's just every bit as damaged goods as Schumacher and Rebellin.

I have no idea, do you?

 

[roundabout]

Are you on a mission to hijack every ****ing thread?

 

[El Pistolero]

Just saying Thomas Dekker's "so called tests" don't mean anything until he proves it on the road. Because we don't even know what the results of these tests were... Put them online and we'll have something to talk about.

 

[Arnout]

Are you on a mission to hijack every ****ing thread?

He is. Every reply of him is applauding either Contador or "Phil" Gilbert, no matter the subject. Its getting very annoying.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

He is. Every reply of him is applauding either Contador or "Phil" Gilbert, no matter the subject. Its getting very annoying.

also every rider that isn't contador, gilbert or insert random belgian name sucks, is overrated and should not be taken serious in anything

 

[Thomsena]

also every rider that isn't contador, gilbert or insert random belgian name sucks, is overrated and should not be taken serious in anything

I find it brave that you, of all people, Ryo, complaints about another user...

 

[Havetts]

I find it brave that you, of all people, Ryo, complaints about another user...

The man's got a point though, no matter how hypocrite you may find it .