Thomas Dekker to Garmin

[boomcie]

@D_T

I foolishly forgot you used to do his website. I'm sorry for that. To make amends I prepared something for the new website:

 

[ergmonkey]

The efforts being made here to argue that Gesink is a weaker rider than Dekker in all but GT's are pretty silly.

Does anybody remember Gesink winning Giro dell'Emilia twice (a better one-day race than Dekker ever won)? Plus an Amstel Gold Race podium?

I'm sure if Thomas Dekker did any of those, the fanboys here would being falling all over themselves to proclaim the enormity of Dekker's talent.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I didn't see Gesink every following an acceleration and staying with Rebellin, Valverde, F.Schleck and Cunego until the final Cauberg sprint. That was a f.cking elite group.

Gesink can only get 3rd in Amstel on the basis of breaking away before the better guys attack (and even cramped up and was worse than Ivanov and Kroon for crying out loud)

 

[roundabout]

At least we all now know that Gesink was just a rebound from the disappointment of the true favourite getting suspended

 

[theyoungest]

I didn't see Gesink every following an acceleration and staying with Rebellin, Valverde, F.Schleck and Cunego until the final Cauberg sprint. That was a f.cking elite group.

That was the spring when Dekker was most definitely on the juice, so I won't read too much into those results.

 

[boomcie]

I didn't see Gesink every following an acceleration and staying with Rebellin, Valverde, F.Schleck and Cunego until the final Cauberg sprint. That was a f.cking elite group.

Gesink can only get 3rd in Amstel on the basis of breaking away before the better guys attack (and even cramped up and was worse than Ivanov and Kroon for crying out loud)

Who would have ever thought you would start dissing Gesink. This is quite funny. Tifosi come out and play.

 

[ergmonkey]

And for those who are "surprised" that Vaughters would sign Dekker: it's practically a requirement with Vaughters to sign dopers. The core of his team at this level has always been Ex-USPS/Phonak/Liberty riders. The only difference with Dekker is that he got caught and is just coming off of a ban.

If Vaughters himself is anything to go by, riders don't even need to confess. They just need to make vague references to how they 'learned a lot about themselves' from their past, uh, 'performances'.

No surprises here.

Also, typical charade behavior from Vaughters where he made sure a few months ago to release an article on cyclingnews about how he turned Dekker down and tried to set him straight back in the days when Dekker was doping. So, now we should all be primed to expect this decision and yet another move from Vaughters to save the Sport and its troubled youth.

 

[TERMINATOR]

best choice for him.i hope he still got it.

He never "had it"...that's why he resorted to taking EPO, remember?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Who would have ever thought you would start dissing Gesink. This is quite funny. Tifosi come out and play.

Not dissing Gesink

I just think he's not so much of a classic rider like Dekker is.
And throwing Emilia in makes no sense. That's almost a pure climbers race.

Is Gesink a better classics rider than Evans because Evans never won Emilia and Gesink did twice? No...

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

He never "had it"...that's why he resorted to taking EPO, remember?

Blablabla the usual bull****.

Dekker was already world class at junior and espoir level and before becoming pro he had never doped. Even Bernard Kohl, who practically accused everyone and every team he rode with, said that doping at Rabobank Continental was out of the question and nobody did it.

 

[ergmonkey]

Gesink can only get 3rd in Amstel on the basis of breaking away before the better guys attack

And I suppose Fabian Cancellara can only win Paris-Roubaix by breaking away before the better guys sprint?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

you know what I mean ergmonkey, cmon

 

[boomcie]

And for those who are "surprised" that Vaughters would sign Dekker: it's practically a requirement with Vaughters to sign dopers. The core of his team at this level has always been Ex-USPS/Phonak/Liberty riders. The only difference with Dekker is that he got caught and is just coming off of a ban.

If Vaughters himself is anything to go by, riders don't even need to confess. They just need to make vague references to how they 'learned a lot about themselves' from their past, uh, 'performances'.

No surprises here.

How is it not suprising? They are always trying to profile themselves as avid anti-dopers.

Signing Ex-USPS/Phonak/Liberty riders isn't looking suspicious to the general public so I don't see how that influences their public image? Millar became a self-proclaimed anti-doping warrior after his suspencion, so he fits right in with the image. Dekker, that's another case.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Reaction Thomas Dekker on today's news

AMSTERDAM - Thomas Dekker was just ready for today's training when the news in Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf reached him. In his reaction he is clear; 'For now I can confirm there is no agreement with Garmin-Cervélo or their development team. I am doing tests that correlate my power and oxygen carrying capacity with the blood levels. Hopefully, these will show my body can compete clean'.


'I have submitted a letter to WADA that I will cooperate fully with any questions they have re my past. I hope I am given another chance, but I understand that it isn't as simple as just asking to be forgiven and then jumping back into the top level. I will earn it. Slowly and patiently. And I will show that I can be a positive force in cycling. To be in contact with Vaughters is an honor on its own, making a comeback at his team is a dream'.


SEG Cycling

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Right now he should be very happy if he gets to the level Gesink is on.

last year he was in training already on 95% of how he was in his strongest epo years so no doubt he'll be back better than ever and he's always been much more talented than gesink that doesn't chance.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

That's the big question mark of course, I have serious doubts he is ever gonna reach that level again, but in his prime he was certainly a very complete rider, better sprint than Gesink, better time trial, a decent punch uphill (and someone much more confident under pressure during a race).

But despite only riding two GT's is his life, his other results don't give the impression he was a climber anywhere close to Gesink's level. A few good results on medium mountains in Swiss races, but never a great climber. I doubt he will be now.

here some results from thomas on mountaintop finishes

1 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 4.36.56
2 Thomas Dekker (Ned) Rabobank
3 Chris Horner (USA) Predictor - Lotto
4 John Gadret (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance 0.02
5 Cadel Evans (Aus) Predictor - Lotto 0.16
6 Sylvester Szmyd (Pol) Lampre - Fondital
7 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team CSC
8 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Astana
9 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Astana 0.23
10 Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0.16
11 Angel Gomez (Spa) Saunier Duval - Prodir 0.37
12 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas 0.48
13 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank
14 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance
15 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team
16 Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Saunier Duval - Prodir
17 Vladimir Miholjevic (Cro) Liquigas 1.50
18 Eddy Mazzoleni (Ita) Astana
19 Josep Jufre Pou (Spa) Predictor - Lotto 2.16
20 Rémy Di Grégorio (Fra) Française des Jeux

1 Thomas Dekker (Ned) Rabobank 2.28.00 (38.514 km/h)
2 Gerrit Glomser (Aut) Team Volksbank 0.08
3 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Saunier Duval - Prodir 0.11
4 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne
5 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Fondital
6 José Angel Gomez Marchante (Spa) Saunier Duval - Prodir
7 Vladimir Efimkin (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne
8 Matteo Carrara (Ita) Unibet.com 0.21
9 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0.31
10 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Unibet.com
11 Wim Van Huffel (Bel) Predictor-Lotto
12 Xavier Florencio Cabre (Spa) Bouygues Telecom
13 Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
14 Hubert Dupont (Fra) Ag2r Prevoyance 0.41
15 Kim Kirchen (Lux) T-Mobile Team
16 David Lopez Garcia (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
17 Daniel Navarro Garcia (Spa) Astana
18 Stijn Devolder (Bel) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.47
19 Maxime Monfort (Bel) Cofidis, le Credit Par Telephone 1.16
20 Christophe Riblon (Fra) Ag2r Prevoyance

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

He never "had it"...that's why he resorted to taking EPO, remember?

he dominated everything as an u23 and junior and even bernhard kohl said that in rabo u23 teams doping was never there

 

[ergmonkey]

you know what I mean ergmonkey, cmon

Yeah, of course I know what you meant.

My point, though, is that Gesink is clearly finding a way to make himself competitive in one-day events despite seeming like more of a stage race guy. Sure, Emilia suits real climbers, but past winners include Bartoli, Di Luca, Rebellin, and Frank Schleck (the same sorts of riders you'd praise Dekker for just hanging with in the Ardennes).

Gesink has been aggressive and has been winning lately. I was impressed with his Montreal win last year, too, even though that's a new race and not a Classic, because the field was still high quality and the course was selective.

I'm not denying that Dekker could one day prove even more in Classics. I just think this thread was becoming much too dismissive of Gesink's one-day rides--which have been very, very good (especially for a young rider ordered to focus on stage races).

 

[boomcie]

Reaction Thomas Dekker on today's news

AMSTERDAM - Thomas Dekker was just ready for today's training when the news in Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf reached him. In his reaction he is clear; 'For now I can confirm there is no agreement with Garmin-Cervélo or their development team. I am doing tests that correlate my power and oxygen carrying capacity with the blood levels. Hopefully, these will show my body can compete clean'. (->parotting Vaughters)


'I have submitted a letter to WADA that I will cooperate fully with any questions they have re my past. I hope I am given another chance, but I understand that it isn't as simple as just asking to be forgiven and then jumping back into the top level. I will earn it. Slowly and patiently. And I will show that I can be a positive force in cycling. To be in contact with Vaughters is an honor on its own, making a comeback at his team is a dream'.


SEG Cycling

Sounds like he's knee-deep crawling in **** and licking all the right boots.

Will the real Dekker please stand up?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I'm not denying that. I'm just saying Dekker is far more a natural at classics than Gesink.

Dekker already colored the final of LBL at age 22. When Di Luca and Schleck went full he countered and stranded at what, 50m? Then the group (with Valverde) behind reeled him in just at the final climb in Ans..

 

[ergmonkey]

How is it not suprising? They are always trying to profile themselves as avid anti-dopers.

It will fit in easily enough with Garmin's public persona. Expect to see Vaughters pontificating about how sad it would be for cycling to lose one of its greatest young talents to the enormous pressures and evils of doping.

Vaughters will talk to cyclingnews in numerous front page story interviews about how he felt compelled to set Dekker straight and prove to him and the world that, as long as you ride with 'the best team in the world' and do exercise 'perfection' in your race plan (See painful Garmin Milan-San Remo video), then you or Thomas Dekker can succeed clean.

This will give Garmin a whole new reason to stay in the press talking about their anti-doping/reformation of cycling culture stance.

 

[boomcie]

It will fit in easily enough with Garmin's public persona. Expect to see Vaughters pontificating about how sad it would be for cycling to lose one of its greatest young talents to the enormous pressures and evils of doping.

Vaughters will talk to cyclingnews in numerous front page story interviews about how he felt compelled to set Dekker straight and prove to him and the world that, as long as you ride with 'the best team in the world' and do exercise 'perfection' in your race plan (See painful Garmin Milan-San Remo video), then you or Thomas Dekker can succeed clean.

This will give Garmin a whole new reason to stay in the press talking about their anti-doping/reformation of cycling culture stance.

That would be a workaround, not making it less surprising.

 

[hrotha]

Sorry but Thomas Dekker's level as a youngster is suspect.

he dominated everything as an u23 and junior and even bernhard kohl said that in rabo u23 teams doping was never there

Organized doping, maybe, but Kohl himself was doping so who's to say other riders weren't doing it on their own too?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dude, just no

I'm 99,99% certain he was clean at espoir/junior level. From 2007 on it's a grey area to say the least

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Sorry but Thomas Dekker's level as a youngster is suspect.

Organized doping, maybe, but Kohl himself was doping so who's to say other riders weren't doing it on their own too?

kohl wasn't doping as an u23 and he has said in interviews(started at t-mobile) that the only place where doping wasn't around was rabo tt3/u23

and thomas was already a supertalent as a 16 year old junior, doping then as well?