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Why does Vaughters think Dekker will come crawling if he offered him a ride on his continental team?
IMO Vacansoleil looks like the perfect team for Dekker.
IMO Vacansoleil looks like the perfect team for Dekker.
biopass said:
Garmin offers Dekker a chance to truly break with his past. The general perception of Garmin, outside of this forum, is of a team that's trying to do things right. If Dekker truly wants to be seen as a clean rider -- and not as a Ricco or Vinokourouv returning to the sport -- his best chance is with a team like Garmin that will continue to test him. I think Dekker wants to be seen as a good guy, and he's not going to get that from a team like Katusha or Vacansoleil (which hired Ricco, after all).
- Aug 18, 2010
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biopass said:
Because it's a way back in.
Once he's in the Continental team and shows some form (and doesn't get caught doing anything naughty) then he has a clear path to the Pro Tour squad. Garmin need a guy for the Ardennes after all, because Hesjedal isn't getting any younger and Martin, who should be a perfect Ardennes rider, just can't reliably avoid his allergies at that time of year. Garmin would also be a place where he could be the main GC guy for one of the Grand Tours.
It's a perfect team for him to slot into. They need a guy with his talents, he needs a team to take a risk on him. Plus, Garmin's high profile stance on doping will help him do the whole penitent routine. If Dekker has the ability to compete without the special sauce it's a good move for both parties.
- Mar 13, 2009
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and yet i believe most doping starts when they just get pro... not junior/espoir level except some sick talentless people like kohlhrotha said:
GoGarmin said:
I find it unlikely that Dekkers motivation for a comeback is cleaning up his reputation. In that case he shouldnt comeback at all. And btw, if he comes back, he wont have to worry about not getting tested enough. Regardless of which team he signs for.
Zinoviev Letter said:
Replace Garmin with Vacansoleil and exclude the part where Dekker is riding for the continental team, then you have the same reasons why Vacansoleil is the perfect team for Dekker. And dont forget Vacan has a high stance against doping too, at least by their own words.
- Aug 16, 2009
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For those that are being critical of Dekker/Garmin, how exactly is a rider supposed to come back from a suspension?
Personally, I root for the guys who come clean. Plus it's interesting to compare the riders' "clean" performance to the doped performance.
If Dekker comes back with Garmin, I predict he'll be 90% of what he used to be, just like alot of the other ex-dopers that they have on the team. I really think that Garmin has a good thing going from the standpoint that it is a true haven from doping. I think on other teams there is just so much negative pressure to produce at any cost that they are willing to look the other way at the expense of the rider's career and reputation.
The riders bear all the risk in doping. When was the last time a team closed its doors because of some embarassing doping scandal. It's so commonplace that it is looked at as a cost of doing business.
As for Dekker, I think he wants to ride clean. Like some of the other studs Garmin has he'll be pretty good for a few races a year and then dissappear.
I'm just glad he didn't go the denial route and insult everyone's intelligence.
Personally, I root for the guys who come clean. Plus it's interesting to compare the riders' "clean" performance to the doped performance.
If Dekker comes back with Garmin, I predict he'll be 90% of what he used to be, just like alot of the other ex-dopers that they have on the team. I really think that Garmin has a good thing going from the standpoint that it is a true haven from doping. I think on other teams there is just so much negative pressure to produce at any cost that they are willing to look the other way at the expense of the rider's career and reputation.
The riders bear all the risk in doping. When was the last time a team closed its doors because of some embarassing doping scandal. It's so commonplace that it is looked at as a cost of doing business.
As for Dekker, I think he wants to ride clean. Like some of the other studs Garmin has he'll be pretty good for a few races a year and then dissappear.
I'm just glad he didn't go the denial route and insult everyone's intelligence.
- Mar 13, 2009
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Jelle Vanendert said in an interview with De Morgen last week that he trains a lot with Thomas Dekker, and that he is impressed every time by the level that TD still has.
I wish I had the interview, some guy on the PCM forums told me this. Hope to get the article somewhere
I wish I had the interview, some guy on the PCM forums told me this. Hope to get the article somewhere
Astana1 said:
Personally, Im not critical of Dekker. I just find it odd that Vaughters sounds like hes doing Dekker a favour by letting him on his continental team. Like Dekker is supposed to be thankfull for this once in a lifetime opportunity.
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biopass said:
Sure. I don't think that Vacansoleil would be a bad fit in terms of team needs and rider opportunities. But Garmin are also an excellent fit.
As for starting with the Conti team, I don't think that's much of a negative as the intention would clearly be to move him through fairly rapidly. It might even be an advantage to be able to get back to race fitness in competitive races that are a little lower profile, rather than doing the usual return from suspension struggle in the full glare of the media.
biopass said:
There's absolutely no comparison between the "doper rehab" PR benefits of going to Garmin and going to Vacansoleil. Garmin is perceived as the cleanest team. Vacan, well let's just say that they aren't. If Dekker cares in the slightest about being portrayed as a changed man in the media, Garmin's a better move.
biopass said:
I'm assuming the idea of Dekker riding for the development team would be just another publicity charade from Vaughters. They'll put Dekker in a few races with Chipotle just so that Vaughters can give a bunch of interviews about how Dekker was forced to "earn his way back," when the understanding will have been all along that Dekker is on the fast-track to big races with Garmin.
Dekker won't be signing to ride for Chipotle. He'll be signing to ride the Vuelta followed by a full season of Ardennes Classics, quality week-long stage races, and at least one grand tour. And lots and lots of JV anti-doping renaissance bs on this website.
biopass said:
I find that a bit strange too. Maybe it's a negotiation tactic to get him cheap? I have to think he'll have some other options but Garmin might be a good fit. I think JV likes the big personalities and some showmanship but he doesn't really have a lot in his team right now.
- Mar 13, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
At 2006 Dekker was already a professional, he turned professional in 2005
OOPS
Right back at you.
Ryo Hazuki said:
How can you say that he was the most talented cyclist when he was juiced to the eyeballs??
- Mar 13, 2009
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so were nearly all his competitorsgreatking88 said:
f.e when he finished 5th in the Amstel. 1-2-3-4 were Cunego (worked with Cecchini), F.Schleck (trainingadvice from Fuentes??), Rebellin (helloooooo), Valverde (hi again) and behind him 6th Pfannberger... all more or less involved in doping.
don't be a stupid moral knight. I'm tired of those
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Im not being stupid or moral...its just ridiculous to say he's the most talented guy ever, when quite obviously he was juiced like the other guys you just mentioned..
- Jul 15, 2010
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This is nothing more than posturing so that Vaughters can still vouch that his team is clean and they have a clean program. Vaughters doesn't give an F if his team is clean. He just doesn't want anyone getting caught. Vaughters is so deep in the omerta, you would need a 1000 mules or 20,000 midgets to pull him out of it.
- Mar 13, 2009
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And I'm convinced with that. Even if he was working with Cecchini. So was Breschel, Cancellara, Cunego, Flecha even Gerdemann 
- Jun 10, 2010
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No one's saying those riders are/were clean while working with Cecchini. But seriously, if someone with the screenname "Dekker_Tifosi" says he's "convinced", I suppose there's no point in discussing this from a rational point of view.Dekker_Tifosi said:And I'm convinced with that. Even if he was working with Cecchini. So was Breschel, Cancellara, Cunego, Flecha even Gerdemann
Zinoviev Letter said:
Just remember, its is you who thinks that going to Garmin is better than going to Vacan. If you´re a doper who´s looking for rehab. For me, I just know that Vaughters can make a TT guy like Wiggins into a climber and GT podium contender.
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