Tim Kerrison

[42x16ss]

Is this bloke the Australian Dr. Ferrari, or what? His training plans turn everyone he works with into a champion, no matter what the sport?

Not quite. From all reports Kerrison has an exceptional understanding of physiology and can tailor an athlete's training regime to suit the individual exceptionally well (physiology was something Ferrari struggled to even comprehend).

When he was working with Hackett and Perkins both had very different training programs and peaking methods prescribed by Kerrison despite competing in the same events.

Not saying he doesn't dope his athletes - or at least turn a blind eye - just that he is the real deal as a physiologist.

 

[42x16ss]

Not sure sedatives = doping... http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...pnol-and-mogadon/story-e6freuy9-1226415050410


http://fssalerts.wordpress.com/2012...ckett-gold-at-beijing-olympics-coach-reveals/


Also seems to indicate Kerrison was not the coach.

http://www.swimnews.com/news/view/9604

By 2008 Kerrison was working with Jodie Henry. Stilnox was used by swimmers at major meets to encourage sleep and relaxation when competing in multiple events over several days. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if it's used by riders during GT's.

 

[the big ring]

For further research: http://www.velo-club.net/prntopic.php?forum=3&topic=56880&post_id=1737271

The doctors SKY (officially):
-Tim Kerrison, trainer Ian Thorpe including the 2004 Olympics and 2008 Olympics Rebecca Adlington, fervant internships altitude.
Geert-Leinders, former Rabobank 1996 á 2009, Humanplasma ¿?
-Steve Peters and Roger Palfreeman 2008 Olympics and eight gold medals (Chris Hoy et al).
Á The team with two other doctors who are David Hulse and Richard Freeman.

 

[the big ring]

Thorpe questions re: testosterone, etc, in 2006:

http://swimming.about.com/b/2007/03/31/is-ian-thorpe-guilty-of-doping.htm

Reports are out that Ian Thorpe showed abnormally high levels of banned substances (reportedly testosterone and a related substance) in a doping test last year. The case was reportedly closed due to a lack of proof by the Australian Anti-doping Agency. FINA wants the case re-opened. This was first reported in L'Equipe - a French newspaper. FINA released a statement:

Wanted to get the date of the positive: May, 2006

The Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority did not identify Thorpe by name but said it had been investigating a case since May 2006. 'There is no suggestion that an athlete has committed an anti-doping rule violation,' its chairman, Richard Ings, said yesterday.

 

[the big ring]

By 2008 Kerrison was working with Jodie Henry. Stilnox was used by swimmers at major meets to encourage sleep and relaxation when competing in multiple events over several days. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if it's used by riders during GT's.

Not banned by WADA, but was banned by the AOC - Australian Olympic Committee for 2012's Olympics.

It's a drug of dependence, so I hope to hell they are not using it.

 

[the big ring]

Regarding the Chinese female swimmer at this year's Oympics:

But Ye trains in Australia under respected coach Denis Cotterell, who used to be in charge of Australian distance star Grant Hackett.

The legendary Australian swimmer Ian Thorpe, who trained under other coaches, revealed he too advanced his times by five seconds when he was just 16. The difference is that Ye's times are faster than the men – a statistical anomaly.

 

[the big ring]

Ouch. Some people have elevated Hct, but Thorpe has elevated "testosterone and a luteinising hormone".

A report in the French daily sports newspaper L'Equipe by journalist Damien Ressiot in March last year said Thorpe gave a urine sample in May 2006 which showed abnormal levels of testosterone and a luteinising hormone in his system. Such elevated levels can be used as evidence of drugs use and can lead to a doping ban.

France has very stringent laws which uphold privacy.

Following the revelation, the World Anti Doping Authority and the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority launched an investigation which found Thorpe's high levels to be naturally occurring and dismissed the case. Swimming's world governing body, FINA, made similar findings.

I have a massive problem with this:
1. they admit the levels were high.
2. they had to investigate (???) to determine why
3. the determination was: it's natural

From this we can conclude:
1. they had to investigate, so Thorpe had no exception (like a TUE) for elevated levels. If he did have a standing exception WHY THE FCK did it not get mentioned, ever? This is like Contador's high Hct exception.
2. This is the first time this has EVER occurred for this swimmer. wtf? They never tested for this before or he just never had it high before.

At the time, Thorpse had retired.

Reminds me of the Rob Hayles case, where someone who allegedly always had high Hct suddenly pinged off a 50.3% but all he got was a slap on the wrist.

It stinks.

 

[sittingbison]

to be fair to Thorpe, he was investigated by several different agencies including WADA, who all found the same result ie naturally occurring. The only scurrilous activity in this case seemed to be the journo. Although we have all had our eyes opened since 2006 with Floyd, Tyler and Lance.

Phelps is probably the Armstrong of swimming - Thorpe is more like Big Mig (making Spitz is the Cannibal and Biondi is the Badger )

And don't forget that Ye had hands like buckets:

http://www.smh.com.au/olympics/swim...-question-chinese-success-20120731-23b6j.html

 

[BroDeal]

The Thorpe affair has always smelled like a cover up.

 

[the big ring]

We now have an HgH test - where's Thorpe's frozen blood sample?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Thorpe_and_drug_testing

Accusations of steroid use continued later in the year, this time from German captain Chris-Carol Bremer, who stated that "hands and feet are unusually big" due to the use of human growth hormone.[6] Thorpe denied the claims and called for the introduction of blood testing, promising to have a sample frozen to prove his innocence upon the discovery of such a test. Although a test for EPO was developed in time for the games, no successful test for hGh was found.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/swimming/thorpe-likely-to-be-cleared/2007/04/05/1175366408414.html

IAN Thorpe's battle to clear his name may soon be over. Drug-testing officials familiar with the case say the five-time Olympic swimming champion has only to provide a credible reason for his high levels of a naturally occurring hormone and he will have no case to answer.

LH is produced by the pituitary gland and stimulates ovulation in women and testosterone production in men. Male athletes are tested for the hormone when the body's level of testosterone is above the 4:1 ratio.

It is understood Thorpe's testosterone ratio was just over the 4:1 trigger point, but not excessively so. The testosterone ratio was not significantly out of kilter with previous test results nor with three subsequent drug tests.

So Thorpe has a consistent E/T ration > 4:1 but no mention of an exemption?

Drug testers look for a sharp spike in testosterone ratios as a sign of cheating, which was not apparent in Thorpe's case. Nor was there any evidence to suggest the testosterone was from artificial sources.

But if you took LH to stimulate testosterone, rather than taking testosterone itself, you would get what we are seeing here. Great for recovering between swim meets overnight.

Drug testers have been wary of some athletes using LH to try to mask testosterone abuse. But the Thorpe camp may take comfort from the 2005 case of Irish distance runner Gareth Turnbull, who was cleared after scientists argued that injecting testosterone would reduce, not increase, the secretion of hormones such as LH.

The panel in the Turnbull case also accepted that his high testosterone levels could have been influenced by his consumption of eight pints of beer and three or four shots of spirits the night before the test.

Floyd Landis!? Calling Floyd Landis!!?

 

[Ferminal]

lol > 4:1...

 

[the big ring]

lol > 4:1...

lol whut?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epitestosterone

Epitestosterone levels are typically highest in young males; however, by adulthood, most healthy males exhibit a testosterone to epitestosterone ratio (T/E ratio) of about 1:1

http://exercise.bloggles.info/2007/12/04/the-effects-of-exercise-on-testosterone-concentrations/

Prolonged acute submaximal exercise bouts may lead to a suppression of testosterone levels possibly lasting up to several days.

Male athletes who train intensively may experience reductions in basal testosterone concentrations, although this is not necessarily a consistent phenomena. Furthermore, concentrations still tend to be within normal clinical range.

 

[BroDeal]

lol > 4:1...

Lock up your daughters and hope he keeps his Thorpedo in his pants.

Did the Aussies ever perform a CIR test on the samples? It sounds like they relied on an explanation provided by Thorpe about why his ratio was out of whack. It sounds too much like Dr. Fuentes providing an excuse for Botero's ratio.

Beyond that, it might have been a good idea to get Thorpe into an alcohol treatment program.

 

[sittingbison]

Lock up your sons and hope he keeps his Thorpedo in his pants....

Fixed. Free of charge

 

[42x16ss]

Fixed. Free of charge

Beat me to it!

Another thing to remember in regards to Thorpe's T/E ratio is that he was a world champ at 16 and Olympic champ at 18. A lot of his samples may have been skewed due to his age and development, at least for the first half of his career.

 

[the big ring]

Beat me to it!

Another thing to remember in regards to Thorpe's T/E ratio is that he was a world champ at 16 and Olympic champ at 18. A lot of his samples may have been skewed due to his age and development, at least for the first half of his career.

No blood passport back then. Phew!

Even so, 22-24 you'd expect "normal" T/E ratios wouldn't you?

 

[sittingbison]

No blood passport back then. Phew!

Even so, 22-24 you'd expect "normal" T/E ratios wouldn't you?

Perhaps not, the guy was a physical abnormality from a very young age (12?). Huge and hulking. Flippers for feet. He just might be one of natures "outliers".

Although there is that article comparing a PB increase with Ye, he has consistently been the best since that early age, he didn't come from nowhere like say Vroome. Or career change like say Wiggo. Or improve like red wine Dodger. And I think he had the same coach from a young age - he didn't get the benefit of a Sky "training" paradigm.

I can't remember the specifics of the outcry, but was he retired when the test was done? Wasn't it an administrative error he was still in checking pool?

Anyway, my thoughts are it might not be fair including him in a discussion on Kerrison and Sky. He might be guilty as hell, but dissimilar modus operandi to that scene.

 

[the big ring]

Perhaps not, the guy was a physical abnormality from a very young age (12?). Huge and hulking. Flippers for feet. He just might be one of natures "outliers".

Although there is that article comparing a PB increase with Ye, he has consistently been the best since that early age, he didn't come from nowhere like say Vroome. Or career change like say Wiggo. Or improve like red wine Dodger. And I think he had the same coach from a young age - he didn't get the benefit of a Sky "training" paradigm.

I can't remember the specifics of the outcry, but was he retired when the test was done? Wasn't it an administrative error he was still in checking pool?

Anyway, my thoughts are it might not be fair including him in a discussion on Kerrison and Sky. He might be guilty as hell, but dissimilar modus operandi to that scene.

He got pinged in competition. I think the fact that he consistently tested high but was never pinged before is revolting. No exemption, which your argument here would seem to indicate he would require as a matter of course. And I have no problems with high testosterone - but 4+ times as high? I need to see proof that that makes sense.

It only came out after he retired as a nosy journalist (similar to Contador's case) did some investigative journalism.

He is included in this thread as I am reading claims that Tim Kerrison was (one of) Thorpe's coaches. Thorpe retired late 2006, the same year Kerrison headed to the UK.

 

[sittingbison]

He got pinged in competition. I think the fact that he consistently tested high but was never pinged before is revolting. No exemption, which your argument here would seem to indicate he would require as a matter of course. And I have no problems with high testosterone - but 4+ times as high? I need to see proof that that makes sense.

It only came out after he retired as a nosy journalist (similar to Contador's case) did some investigative journalism.

He is included in this thread as I am reading claims that Tim Kerrison was (one of) Thorpe's coaches. Thorpe retired late 2006, the same year Kerrison headed to the UK.

The fact that he is at 4:1 obviously raises concerns. But it is not 11:1, or even the 6:1 that was the legal limit then (from memory of Floyd). It is still at the current legal limit of 4:1. And they said it was not synthetic.

What I have never understood is the "normal" male has 1:1, but do some normal males have 4:1?

If Kerrison was a Thorpe coach, no problemo him being in this mix. But as I pointed out, if Kerrison was on board he did not effect Thorpes results like it appears with the Fab Four at Sky.

EDIT: BTW, I agree with BroDeal, because although I am being a bit of a devils advocate on this, at the time when the frog journo uncovered it my immediate thought was "cover up" due to the reaction of the authorities. I wonder if Thorpe said any of the usual denials we laugh at now "trained hard" etc

 

[the big ring]

Interesting read on T/E ratios here: http://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/dissertations/1977561/c1.pdf

in particular the average T/E ration for Asians

During the 10th Asian Games in Seoul a mean T/E ratio of 0.76 was observed

Straying off-topic too far now, but posted for posterity.

 

[bianchigirl]

Can I be the first, to say that, rather than a mastermind, kerrisob seems to me to be the Chris Carmichael of this operation?

 

[sittingbison]

Can I be the first, to say that, rather than a mastermind, kerrisob seems to me to be the Chris Carmichael of this operation?

what, doping the juniors then building a fake career?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I did like the reference above to the Chinese lady swimming faster than the men. It's a great story, except it's not true. The last time I checked, Lochte's time for the 400 IM in the OGs was around 18s faster than Ye's.

She did indeed swim faster up the last 50m, but it wasn't a 50m race. Rebecca Adlington's final 50 in the 2011 world champs 800m was also faster than Lochte's final 50 in the 2012 OGs and one would think this has happened before, given the impact of pace (mis)judgement in swimming.

Also amusing was the (admittedly limited in number) American coaches who accused Ye of doping were deafeningly silent when American Kate Ledecky swam 20s faster to win the 800m than had been her PB ten months previously, twice the rate of progress demonstrated by Ye.

 

[the big ring]

Can I be the first, to say that, rather than a mastermind, kerrisob seems to me to be the Chris Carmichael of this operation?

You have said what I have been thinking all along. Someone above has stated Kerrison is a bona fide physiologist, and I am prepared to accept that. The vapid, "crunched the numbers of Tony Martin vs Wiggins cadence at WC 2011 TT" is what sealed the deal for me on that theory.

The reason I started investigating Kerrison in the first place is beyond the "Wiggins <3 Kerrison" TdF drivel there was nothing. Absolutely nothing about this guy and what he has done.


But you'd think someone who could revolutionize cycling training having shown himself at swimming or rowing training would have some runs on the board there... somewhere?

And that raises another scenario:

a) he was ok to crap at swimming training, so why the hell would you ask him to come and be head of sports science with your multi-million GB pound cycling team experiment? OR

b) he was brilliant at swimming training, so why the hell would you remove him from the swimming team?

Bottom line - this guy is a practical ghost until joining Sky in 2011 and then he's an indominitable force in cycling training techniques.

 

[maltiv]

I know for a fact that Kerrison has drastically changed how the riders on Sky train. For example, they've almost completely stopped doing the classic "coffee-stop ride" or the recovery ride. Every single minute of their training is planned now, and it's usually insanely hard. However, they also have more days completely off the bike (instead of recovery rides). Every single training ride is analyzed afterwards. The length of the intervals is dependent on which race they are aiming for at that particular time.

I'm not saying this means Sky are clean, but at least it shows that he has indeed changed something.