Tirreno - Adriatico Stage 6, P.S.Elpidio -> P.S.Elpidio, 209 kms (11/03/2013)

[Geraint Too Fast]

Kwiatkowski has been amazing. I know it's only a week long stage race but given how hard it's been and that he's only 22, he must be considered a possibility for the grand tours in the years to come.

Indeed, and luckily for his reputation (on this forum at least) he didn't end up going to Sky as part of the Cav deal.

 

[stefrees]

If talking about better climbers than nibali, since vuelta 2011, when has nibali ever put more than a second into wiggins on a mtf?

Fwiw I think nibali is a classy bike rider who makes the most of his ability, a gary Neville of cycling if you will

 

[JRanton]

Indeed, and luckily for his reputation (on this forum at least) he didn't end up going to Sky as part of the Cav deal.

You're right there. Having said that he's shown huge potential from a young age which does make his performances more believable than Froome for instance.

 

[Netserk]

You're right there. Having said that he's shown huge potential from a young age which does make his performances more believable than Froome for instance.

Try to look at his results from the Giro last year. I hadn't expected him to do so well on Tivo to put it mildly.

 

[JRanton]

Just watching it again, it looks to me like Froome lost most of the time on the descent, assuming I picked out the correct riders from the overhead shot, he was about 10 seconds behind Sagan and 5 behind Contador as they seemed to be going over the top. The coverage was a bit all over the place so I'm not 100% that is exactly right.

The coverage was terrible. We didn't even get to see Nibali's winning move at the top of the penultimate climb.

As you say Froome was only 10 metres or so behind Contador at the top and he had Henao just ahead of him. They obviously didn't descend very well because by the start of the last climb they were well behind the Contador/Purito group.

It has to be said though that Froome just didn't have good enough legs today. He clearly isn't that good on short steep climbs (not explosive) and in bad weather. Those two factors probably won't cause him too many problems at the Tour but the most important thing to consider based on today is how good is Froome's recovery? Was it just the weather/short steep climbs that caused him to struggle or is there a bigger issue with his recovery after several hard days of racing? Of course it seems unlikely given what we've seen from him at the 2011 Vuelta and the 2012 Tour. I'm interested to see how he does in the TT tomorrow, that will answer the question. The race of truth!

 

[JRanton]

Try to look at his results from the Giro last year. I hadn't expected him to do so well on Tivo to put it mildly.

I don't think you can really judge much from a 21 year old struggling on the Giro climbs. When you consider his relatively light weight and the amount of power he was generating in the time trials it isn't a huge surprise to me that he did well on Tivo this year.

 

[jaylew]

of my list, at least 14 can eb made a fair argument of that they are better climbers than nibali:

RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquím "Purito"
CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto
RUJANO GUILLÉN José Humberto "Cara de Niño"
ANTON HERNANDEZ Igor
EVANS Cadel
SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel “Samu”
POZZOVIVO Domenico
FROOME Chris
COBO ACEBO Juan Jose
SCARPONI Michele
QUINTANA ROJAS Nairo Alexander
ROLLAND Pierre
HENAO MONTOYA Sergio Luis "El Venao"
VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro

still of these 14 names I think you can make argument that they are better. I certainly see it that way

Ok, that first list was laughable and this one is only slightly better.

Sure, you could make an argument but would it be a good one? You could just as easily argue Nibali is a better climber than all but maybe 4 of the people you put on this list.

I'll give you 5 of them, 4 could go either way and 5 I give a resounding "no"

 

[TANK91]

Well for sure Froome wins the Tour barring a crash , Contador or any punchier rider wont crack Froome .If Froome is like last year's Tour then no chance for any 1 he beat Nibali with the handbrake on lol.The gradient's in Tour are perfect for him , id love to see Froome , Contador , A.Schleck (doubt Schleck is good ) on the podium.

 

[TANK91]

Cobo and Rujano ain't better than Nibali lol , neither is Samu or Evans now

 

[MatParker117]

Tweet from Acquarone regarding this stage:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phinney-time-cut-as-tirreno-adriatico-gruppetto-quits

. "Many of you enjoyed it, but it was too much. We lost the right balance," he said. "...if you lose half your peloton, you just have to be honest and learn from mistakes."

Doubt we'll this type of stage again based on that tweet.

 

[trevim]

Tweet from Acquarone regarding this stage:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/phinney-time-cut-as-tirreno-adriatico-gruppetto-quits



Doubt we'll this type of stage again based on that tweet.

He's probably an idiot then. My guess is that more than half of those riders quit because of the weather and because they would retire from the race anyway to prepare for San Remo. This Tirreno was great with the leadership going from Froome, Nibali, Cavendish. Go ahead and kill that putting a very much controlable course with teams like Sky. That'll be much better.

[Side note: Right up there with this stage, the best thing from Tirreno was the rise of the Skyborgs: great nickname really. And hats off to them for a great race as a team.]

 

[MatParker117]

He's probably an idiot then. My guess is that more than half of those riders quit because of the weather and because they would retire from the race anyway to prepare for San Remo. This Tirreno was great with the leadership going from Froome, Nibali, Cavendish. Go ahead and kill that putting a very much controlable course with teams like Sky. That'll be much better.

[Side note: Right up there with this stage, the best thing from Tirreno was the rise of the Skyborgs: great nickname really. And hats off to them for a great race as a team.]

Phinney's opinion:

"These climbs make for spectacular racing but it would be enough just to have five of them at the finish instead of starting straight uphill and completing a grand total of 18. The spectacle would be the same, as people at home only watch the last 50km anyways."

 

[cineteq]

Awesome Picture

Sorry for the big pic, but kudos to the best buds that worked together.

 

[Ferminal]

Phinney's opinion:

That is more or less correct I think. The pace wasn't really on hard until Cannondale started riding, only the final 20km the big guns put the hammer down on the climbs and pushed on with it. It was just too hard for anyone to try something from 50km.

You could have a 180km relatively flat transfer into the six climb 40km sequence and achieve close to the same outcome. Hopefully this is what they go for instead of abandoning the idea of a hard hilly stage altogether.

Of course that wouldn't stop the sprinters and rouleurs complaining and DNF'ing if it were the penultimate day before the TT. Speaking of TT... that final 20km or so loop would be an epic course.

 

[Escarabajo]

Where was Uran today btw? Unless I missed it I didn't see him take a pull. I remember a wet stage in the Giro last year when he cracked quite badly (stage 15?). He seems to struggle in these conditions and his recovery after a couple of hard days is not the best.

In Covadonga a couple of years ago on a torrential day he lost many minutes. The excuse is that he was injured though, but it is no coincidence that he struggles continuously on third week of GT's. His first consistent ride was the Giro last year but he was weakening with the days. That last mountain stage in Stelvio, Henao had to drag him to the top.

 

[wwabbit]

Colombians and Kenyans don't handle cold rain well?

 

[JRanton]

A bit off topic but a thought just hit me. How can Froome possibly win the Tour when Purito will just ride his train all the way to the last Km then jump him. Sky train benefits him more than anyone. No long range attacks or moves to cover.

A) It's possible on long climbs that Purito will not always be able to follow the train (see Tivo)

B) There probably won't be bonus seconds in the Tour (I don't think it's been confirmed yet either way though)

C) There are two time trials and a team time trial and even with Purito's improvement in that area it will be difficult to make up the lost time with last km attacks on the mountain stages.

 

[JRanton]

Colombians and Kenyans don't handle cold rain well?

I'm showing my ignorance but I'm pretty sure there are some very wet regions in Colombia and they also have cold weather in the winter so you can't just expect them all to be terrible in such conditions. Henao for instance seems to do ok although he also has better recovery than Uran.

 

[JRanton]

In Covadonga a couple of years ago on a torrential day he lost many minutes. The excuse is that he was injured though, but it is no coincidence that he struggles continuously on third week of GT's. His first consistent ride was the Giro last year but he was weakening with the days. That last mountain stage in Stelvio, Henao had to drag him to the top.

I think Uran should focus on one day hilly classics and maybe some week long stage races (although his time trial hurts his chances). He was arguably as strong as any of the others on Tivo. Did a lot of work pulling on the front and only just finished behind Contador but significantly that was the first hard climbing day of the race. Since then he gets worse every day. Apparently he said after yesterday's stage that he needed a month to recover (!) so I guess we won't see him in Catalunya next week.

 

[SafeBet]

Uran did very well in Lombardia last year in a very wet day.

 

[Red Rick]

If talking about better climbers than nibali, since vuelta 2011, when has nibali ever put more than a second into wiggins on a mtf?

Fwiw I think nibali is a classy bike rider who makes the most of his ability, a gary Neville of cycling if you will

Green mountain this year, about 7 minutes in one go

 

[JRanton]

Uran did very well in Lombardia last year in a very wet day.

That's true. Recovery from previous day's hard efforts is his biggest issue I think.

 

[Eshnar]

Phinney's reasoning isn't legit at all. The overall toughness of the stage counts too. As an example just consider the Lanciano stage. It wasn't ridden very hard, but it was enough to make Sagan drop like a stone in the end. Even if we didn't watch the climb at all, and nothing happened in it, it did matter in the end.
Who knows what would have happened without 13 of the 18 climbs of yesterday.

 

[Netserk]

The only thing that might should have been changed (lol that's a lot of verbs ) is the stretch with 30%. Everything else was perfect.

 

[Eshnar]

The only thing that might should have been changed (lol that's a lot of verbs ) is the stretch with 30%. Everything else was perfect.

Isn't that stretch that effectively derailed the Sky train?