Tirreno - Adriatico Stage 6, P.S.Elpidio -> P.S.Elpidio, 209 kms (11/03/2013)

[Netserk]

Isn't that stretch that effectively derailed the Sky train?

If they just kept on the hard loop for ~250km I think it would have been derailed anyway

EDIT: They could take a loop with the climbs from Monte Urano to Santa Lucia (63.7 km) 4 times and the stage would be 254.8 km.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

It was a great profile, a 3/4 Liege Bastogne Liege, with suiting weather conditions.

The argument 72 riders stepped of the bike is BS, did not see Andre Greipel quit, no, he just rode his 90 kiloos over those hills.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

How do you explain that Nibali came 3rd on Zonc in '11?

name me one other extraordinary mountain result of him? of all the riders in my list I cna at least ptu multiples and also wins with big gaps, how many mountain finishes has nibali won?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

You can make an argument for pretty much anything you like, but will it be a good argument?
Guys like Rujano, Cobo, Anton have a couple of good races through thier whole careers. Nothing in the last couple of years so very hard to judge.
Pozzovivo is going great in Trentino, but has he ever showed that much in a gt when everyone is at peak form? (not that he is not a great climber)
Evasn, Sanchez, Scarponi would all suprise me if they got up to NIablis climbing level of the 2012 tour again.
This is not a very strong case you have brought us here I am sorry to say Ryo

cobo, anton and rujano have all destroyed mountain fields within the last 2 years, so

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Where was Uran today btw? Unless I missed it I didn't see him take a pull. I remember a wet stage in the Giro last year when he cracked quite badly (stage 15?). He seems to struggle in these conditions and his recovery after a couple of hard days is not the best.

uran is in fact a great rain rider. however he seems totally unmotivated to me, he said in interviews in colombia before tirrneo that he had a free role, as you could se ehe barely worked for froome and he rode hard to the finish to save his own gc few days ago. I think today he just didn't care anymore. he'll be sure to leave sky after this year and so will henao(he is promised the vuelta, but he wants the tour next year)

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

The coverage was terrible. We didn't even get to see Nibali's winning move at the top of the penultimate climb.

As you say Froome was only 10 metres or so behind Contador at the top and he had Henao just ahead of him. They obviously didn't descend very well because by the start of the last climb they were well behind the Contador/Purito group.

It has to be said though that Froome just didn't have good enough legs today. He clearly isn't that good on short steep climbs (not explosive) and in bad weather. Those two factors probably won't cause him too many problems at the Tour but the most important thing to consider based on today is how good is Froome's recovery? Was it just the weather/short steep climbs that caused him to struggle or is there a bigger issue with his recovery after several hard days of racing? Of course it seems unlikely given what we've seen from him at the 2011 Vuelta and the 2012 Tour. I'm interested to see how he does in the TT tomorrow, that will answer the question. The race of truth!

froome didn;'t descend very well, henao was fine. you didn't watch the race? henao was shown to drop back to froome. froome was in no mans land

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Ok, that first list was laughable and this one is only slightly better.

Sure, you could make an argument but would it be a good one? You could just as easily argue Nibali is a better climber than all but maybe 4 of the people you put on this list.

I'll give you 5 of them, 4 could go either way and 5 I give a resounding "no"

I see you are using some great arguments. I can show results of all of those guys of tearing up mountains, winning MOUNTAIN stages, nibali nope...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Cobo and Rujano ain't better than Nibali lol , neither is Samu or Evans now

1 José Rujano Guillen (Ven) Androni Giocattoli 4:45:54
2 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard
3 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:01:27
4 Hubert Dupont (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:01:29
5 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
6 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Pro Team Astana 0:01:36
7 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Lampre - ISD
8 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale
9 Vasili Kiryienka (Blr) Movistar Team
10 Denis Menchov (Rus) Geox-TMC

I can do the same with cobo, although admittedly in cobo's vuelta nibali wasn't in great shape, or do you think nibali wouild've won angliru like cobo did?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

In Covadonga a couple of years ago on a torrential day he lost many minutes. The excuse is that he was injured though, but it is no coincidence that he struggles continuously on third week of GT's. His first consistent ride was the Giro last year but he was weakening with the days. That last mountain stage in Stelvio, Henao had to drag him to the top.

did you see the tour 2009? he was 22 in his first ever gt, he was externely good in the final weke and clibmed with the best and was in the attacks. I remember very well. basiclaly he just gets injured or sick in a gt. all of them except last year, in which he was also best in the final week despite an ongoign injury from his classics crash.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Colombians and Kenyans don't handle cold rain well?

some colombians don't, others do, duarte, henao, duque, many more are good rain riders. although I think they might all prefer the blistering sun. you realize many area';s in colombia like valle de cauca, it rains almost every day?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Uran did very well in Lombardia last year in a very wet day.

he also won his first ever race, an itt in the thundering rain, it was so bad they later canceled the final riders of the race.

 

[JRanton]

uran is in fact a great rain rider. however he seems totally unmotivated to me, he said in interviews in colombia before tirrneo that he had a free role, as you could se ehe barely worked for froome and he rode hard to the finish to save his own gc few days ago. I think today he just didn't care anymore. he'll be sure to leave sky after this year and so will henao(he is promised the vuelta, but he wants the tour next year)

That's complete BS and you know it.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

That's complete BS and you know it.

no it isn't my arguments are valid and true, unlike yours I actually understand cycling and have many of my info first hand.

 

[JRanton]

no it isn't my arguments are valid and true, unlike yours I actually understand cycling and have many of my info first hand.

Have you seen the picture of Uran on the bus afterwards? He was completely ****ed and said he would need a month to recover. The idea that he would simply not care enough to work for Froome when the race was on the line is completely ridiculous given that he worked for him on the previous two stages.

 

[Eshnar]

Ryo, I'm not sure you're aware of that, but we're talking of present days. Claiming a rider is a better climber than Nibali because he won one MTF 2 years ago just isn't legit. Nibali has improved a lot in these years. And apart from that, a rider that beats Nibali 3 times out of 10 (example) in his career is not a better climber than him.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

did you see the tour 2009? he was 22 in his first ever gt, he was externely good in the final weke and clibmed with the best and was in the attacks. I remember very well. basiclaly he just gets injured or sick in a gt. all of them except last year, in which he was also best in the final week despite an ongoign injury from his classics crash.

You really believe this stuff?

Climbing with this crop:
138 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Caisse d'Epargne
139 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa) Rabobank
140 Frederik Willems (Bel) Liquigas
141 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team Saxo Bank
142 Danny Pate (USA) Garmin - Slipstream
143 Brian Vandborg (Den) Liquigas
144 Iñigo Cuesta Lopez De Castro (Spa) Cervelo Test Team
145 David Zabriskie (USA) Garmin - Slipstream
146 Bernhard Eisel (Aut) Team Columbia - HTC
147 Julian Dean (NZl) Garmin - Slipstream
148 Marcin Sapa (Pol) Lampre - NGC
149 Yukiya Arashiro (Jpn) BBOX Bouygues Telecom
150 Grégory Rast (Swi) Astana
151 Heinrich Haussler (Ger) Cervelo Test Team

Get off it Ryo.

Also last years' Giro final week he cracked. Poor Henao had to do a 'Froome/Wiggo' for him.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Ryo, I'm not sure you're aware of that, but we're talking of present days. Claiming a rider is a better climber than Nibali because he won one MTF 2 years ago just isn't legit. Nibali has improved a lot in these years. And apart from that, a rider that beats Nibali 3 times out of 10 (example) in his career is not a better climber than him.

not in climbing, but please enlighten me. and yes we live in today, but a rider doesn't become a bad climber over night. rujano is still a lot better than nibali as a climber. so is cobo as we will see upcoming giro. I also named rujano one of the best climbers before giro 2011, and everybody laughed at me. after etna that was over.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

You really believe this stuff?

Climbing with this crop:
138 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Caisse d'Epargne
139 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa) Rabobank
140 Frederik Willems (Bel) Liquigas
141 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team Saxo Bank
142 Danny Pate (USA) Garmin - Slipstream
143 Brian Vandborg (Den) Liquigas
144 Iñigo Cuesta Lopez De Castro (Spa) Cervelo Test Team
145 David Zabriskie (USA) Garmin - Slipstream
146 Bernhard Eisel (Aut) Team Columbia - HTC
147 Julian Dean (NZl) Garmin - Slipstream
148 Marcin Sapa (Pol) Lampre - NGC
149 Yukiya Arashiro (Jpn) BBOX Bouygues Telecom
150 Grégory Rast (Swi) Astana
151 Heinrich Haussler (Ger) Cervelo Test Team

Get off it Ryo.

Also last years' Giro final week he cracked. Poor Henao had to do a 'Froome/Wiggo' for him.

I see you didn't watch the 2009 tour then

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Have you seen the picture of Uran on the bus afterwards? He was completely ****ed and said he would need a month to recover. The idea that he would simply not care enough to work for Froome when the race was on the line is completely ridiculous given that he worked for him on the previous two stages.

uran didn't really work for froome the previous days. the lanciano stage he pulled for like 100 metres, then let go and rode for himself to finish within 20 seconds to save his own gc. also last years vuelta uran didn't ride anything for froome, completely unmotivated yet few weeks later he was one of the best again in italian classics, including lombardia in the heavy rain

 

[Eshnar]

not in climbing, but please enlighten me. and yes we live in today, but a rider doesn't become a bad climber over night. rujano is still a lot better than nibali as a climber. so is cobo as we will see upcoming giro. I also named rujano one of the best climbers before giro 2011, and everybody laughed at me. after etna that was over.

If we're playing tennis and I beat you 8 times out of 10, who's the better player?
Consistency is a virtue too. Not just an excuse.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I see you didn't watch the 2009 tour then

I did not have my Colombian glasses on it seems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k-8XNcJsDk

So climbing next to non - climber Nibali...
Untill 32 k to go of course.

Do not let the facts get in the way.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

If we're playing tennis and I beat you 8 times out of 10, who's the better player?
Consistency is a virtue too. Not just an excuse.

we are not talkinmg about consistancy here. nibali is one of the most consistant riders in the world, but not one of the best climbers

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I did not have my Colombian glasses on it seems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k-8XNcJsDk

So climbing next to non - climber Nibali...
Untill 32 k to go of course.

Do not let the facts get in the way.

uran was in the attack the whole day and still managed to hang on that long in the third week at age 22, in his first ever gt. but it seems your memory isn't much or you didn't watch it at all

 

[cineteq]

we are not talkinmg about consistancy here. nibali is one of the most consistant riders in the world, but not one of the best climbers

You just have no arguments to support this. I'm going to give you one, just one reason why he's one of the top-10 climbers (being conservative here) in the world right now. 3rd on 2012 TdF with an injury at the end behind 2 ITT specialists. I'm not talking about one-day climbers, I'm talking about a 3-week GC climbers.

 

[Eshnar]

we are not talkinmg about consistancy here. nibali is one of the most consistant riders in the world, but not one of the best climbers

So being a better climber than Nibali means having managed to beat him once in a lifetime?