ToCA top ten list

[Francois the Postman]

I consider the nonsense spread by organizers and American teams to be a way to sell this race to the American public. And that's what advertising is about, lies, lies, and more lies, isn't it?

Lies can only be as big as you consider your audience will be gullible enough to swallow.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Francois the Postman]

No doubt there will be Belgian housewives watching the EuroSport coverage this year to witness Boonen kicking Cavendish's hieny.

If you have Sporza, you won't be looking around for another channel to cover the gaps....

 

[tgsgirl]

If you have Sporza, you won't be looking around for another channel to cover the gaps....

Especially not (Dutch) Eurosport. What terrible commentators they have.

 

[Polish]

If you have Sporza, you won't be looking around for another channel to cover the gaps....

The BEST way to watch the race live is the "Amgen Tour Tracker".

http://tracker.amgentourofcalifornia.com/

It covers the pre-race all the way to the finishes.
Commercial Free.

In past years the play-by-play has been performed by Mr Elizab.
He does a stupendous job imo! Not sure who will announce this year.

 

[Polish]

International Flavor

Even though the AToC has been around only four years and 32 stages,
Stage Winners have come from 13 different Countries.

ARG, AUS, BEL, CUB, ESP, GBR, GER, ITA, LUX, NED, NOR, SUI, & USA.

I can not think of ANY other race that has started out so Internationally right from the get-go. Well, maybe the World Championship started out with more

That said, I do not expect the AToC to last too much longer.
I savor each Edition as if it is the last one.....

The San Francisco Gran Prix was another Great Race that I treated the same way. Great memories watching that one live too. Taylor Street Hill Baby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJs6nUJpH6I&NR=1
.
.
.

 

[Anonymous]

What about Cancellara. I know he probably is just coming off his post classics rest, but the climbs aren't overly difficult and the Big Bear stage ends with 10k of flat. It should all come down to the TT, which, IMO, would make him a favourite.

+1

There are no climbs that Cancellara should have problems with if he's going reasonably well. If he's even near his condition that he showed in Flanders and Roubaix he will put 2 - 3 seconds per kilometer on his next closest rival at the TT stage.

If he's within 1 minute by the TT, he wins.

I fully expect Saxo to go ape-shit to win this event. Time's running out for Bjarne to sign a title sponsor.

 

[blaxland]

+1

There are no climbs that Cancellara should have problems with if he's going reasonably well. If he's even near his condition that he showed in Flanders and Roubaix he will put 2 - 3 seconds per kilometer on his next closest rival at the TT stage.

If he's within 1 minute by the TT, he wins.

I fully expect Saxo to go ape-shit to win this event. Time's running out for Bjarne to sign a title sponsor.

+10000000000000 agree Scott SoCal...this is a race saxo must win....

 

[Race Radio]

The BEST way to watch the race live is the "Amgen Tour Tracker".

http://tracker.amgentourofcalifornia.com/

It covers the pre-race all the way to the finishes.
Commercial Free.

In past years the play-by-play has been performed by Mr Elizab.
He does a stupendous job imo! Not sure who will announce this year.

don't think there will be any live video this year, except Versus

 

[2wheels]

I agree that Saxo will want this one badly-- and I think Voigt will be their go-to guy. He's been saying all spring that this race is his #1 goal for the year, and he's been laying low just helping his teammates in the Classics-- but his form is very good, and I can't think of a better one-week racer, unless it's Cancellara. Plus, Riis knows how popular Voigt is in America. The Schlecks and Cancellara will gladly ride for Voigt; they owe him big-time. Nobody's putting him on their "Top Ten" lists-- be careful; if you ****s him off he's gonna make people hurt! He and Leipheimer have had some great battles at ToC and Deutschland, I look for this to be another one.

 

[Boeing]

Dave Z seems to be the new "Hincape" of American Bike Media. Hailed the American favorite with no results to back it and never attacks

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Wasn't somebody just babbling about how the ToC is on par with the Giro?

which is absolute bullcrap

 

[issoisso]

Dave Z seems to be the new "Hincape" of American Bike Media. Hailed the American favorite with no results to back it and never attacks

I remember him attacking a field of climbers once on a mountain.

It was very odd seeing Contador working at the front to bring back Zabriskie.

 

[igamogam]

Let's face it, the sad truth is that it's the biggest stage race in the US (no, not the hardest). It's NOT the Tour or the Giro (or even the Suisse). However, when Europeans continue to **** on the US and US riders, it only proves that they're uninterested in anything outside the Continent. Sadly, the US doesn't support cycling the same way that Europe supports it, but then again, Europe has absurd sports that are well-supported (have you SEEN this). Oh, and before you get your hackles up, the US has NASCAR, for which we will properly be eternally humiliated...

The ToC may someday have REAL climbs in the Sierra, but for now, it's the best that the US has and repeatedly denigrating it only shows people for elitists and isolated. Moreover, the UCI and ToC agreed, jointly, to move the race in order to get better weather and get greater involvement and exposure. So, going to that well is just as ignorant and elitist...

The US could host one of the biggest and most demanding grand tours, you have the terrain and the weather but as you point out the culture is missing. Placing the ToC smack in the middle of the Giro takes some of the best riders away from Italy to do a race that few fans (and some US manufacturers) are really interested in. The ToC's previous slot in the calendar generated much more positive interest.

American riders are not blanket hated by Europeans. Greg Lemond was probably one of the greatest riders of all time (a real shame he was shot) and it looks Like Davis Phinney will deserves a following. Unfortunately, Despite his obvious talent and grit LA has caused a backlash (I used to be a fan too), because of his publicity engine and by only targeting Le Tour - he has devalued the performances of the really great riders. It's difficult to compare him to the "greats" because he didn't win the other important events and he just didn't have the "exploits" (OK OK I know about the cancer), no fights with strikers, falling down ravines or winning in the snow or all day lone breaks in the mountains to take the stage. Most Americans fans seem to be blinded by publicity or are just plain unaware of this, which is bloody annoying.

The sad fact is that Cycling is and has always been totally dominated by European riders and races. A result of history, population density and culture. It will take a long time before any events outside the peninsula wil be taken seriously because they are just not as well run or supported and there is not the fan base to make events successful (a bit like football really).

As to crazy sports, I don't think arm wresling qualifies as ubsurd, it doesn't even have a big following (unlike NASCAR) now cheese-rolling or bog snorkeling - that's sport!!!

The ToC deserves to do well and prosper but not at the same time as the monument events. If weather is an issue move it to later in the year but personally I quite liked the interest it generated at the start of the season, especially because of the bad weather - a foretaste of the classics.

I would argue the opposite of your eliteist theory. Cycling is a sport for everyman in Europe, Jane/Joe Bloggs and their dog can stand and watch the races next to their house, whereas most Europeans fans see certain American riders influence as damaging the simple roots of the sport and introducing rampant commercialism and unbalanced reporting (because of the PR/celebrity angle and unwillingness to accept anything not tailored for the "American way"). In no other sport can the man in the street reach out and touch their heoroes and bringing in bodyguards and publicists distances people form the kid next door who made good. It seems that successful Americans in cycling do seem to be an oddity even in their own country and their percieved negative influence on the sport is seen as superiority and disrespect for history and culture of the poor-guys game, a kind-of dumbing-down for the TV-commercialville.

 

[Anonymous]

what everybody else said...

since this has morphed into a "trash the AToC" thread its my turn.

After watching the Bull Riding Channel's AToC preview I was struck by
1) Everystage requires a transfer! Race a day, drive, race next day, drive etc. Everybody has to drive to every stage. Can't get much more California than that
2) There's the "Herbalife Green Jersey" and the "California Travel and Tourism Commission" something or other jersey. Did they sell naming rights to every last bit? If its around next year? "California Travel and Tourism Commission presented by the Department of Natural Resources..." Wally World on steroids.
3) This year ASO is doing the production (which btw might make the race interesting) , but... can't they find anyone in California who can run a camera and produce a spectacle? Didn't they make movies there back in the day?
4) I was floored by the "tourist attractions" we will be shown during the LA stage.... LA City Hall! The colesium (not the same one the Giro shows) wow! A football field, how cool is that! And if you ever need to pay a parking ticket in LA, now you know where to go. I'm gonna be on the edge of my seat. Wonder how many shots of withered up old Arnold we'll see?

5) Reality check: There are "Truth", "Lies", and "Marketing Hype".

 

[dickwrench]

This stupid top ten list doesn't list Lance. No article without him being in the top ten of a grand tour is not worth reading. The only time since the cancer he was outside the top 10 was the Giro last year and that is because he had a broken collarbone. The last time that happened Tyler Hamilton had to take drugs to make it to the end. Lance has never failed a test like Tyler and his whiskey excuse.

Lance must have put out the word to the press that he chooses not to contest this small race and work for Levi and save himself for France. No reason to waste ink so let the lesser riders have their day in the sun. That must be it because cyclingnews is a cool website and they have this cool forum even though there is alot of hate in here. Maybe if he lets others win hate will flow to them and away from him.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm European and I'm dogpiling on the AToC. Not because I hate the AToC or America or American riders (some American riders can be very entertaining, although I prefer climbers and dislike defensive riders who build their gains in the TT, which rules out a lot of Anglophone riders as they often come from track backgrounds) - in the women's péloton, Mara Abbott is one of my absolute favourites.

What I'm dogpiling on is the hype. The hype may be necessary to try to sell it to people in the US, but it's absolutely preposterous and rings false at every turn. The race isn't part of the Historic calendar, which is one thing it will never be able to manage, but the hype seems to suggest that the race thinks it can bypass the whole 'building a history' thing. It thinks that by shouting loudly people will fail to notice the lack of a challenging parcours, and the depth of the péloton is like BMC - a strong veneer but ultimately lacking in top level talent beyond that top tier. If you have no history, the best way to make yourself taken seriously is by having a seriously challenging parcours - the kind that makes riders say "I want to have that on my palmarès. That race will show that I can do it at the top level". Instead they've gone for the 'don't offer it but say you did' approach.

It's not about the negative approach to cycling outside of Europe either. I'm not a fan of the globalisation of cycling mainly because it is forcing teams to race in races that are of no interest to their riders or sponsors at awkward times - QuickStep were worried that, if they had any injuries, they couldn't race the Giro, California and Belgium - and they should be allowed to race their home Tour, yes? Same goes for the new ProTour events in Canada, which will clash with the Vuelta, but also Britain and potentially Missouri too - and those three races will only really appeal to the same group of PT teams. This means more stresses placed on riders, and more required financially of sponsors, to which I say - can the sport really afford to put more stresses on its sponsors, when even absolute top teams like Saxo Bank and Caisse d'Epargne are looking at potential dissolution next year?

No, I like a lot of races outside of Europe. It's nice to see people who I don't normally get to see. The Vuelta a Colombia, for example, is one of the highlights of the season for me.

 

[janus1969]

The US could host one of the biggest and most demanding grand tours, you have the terrain and the weather but as you point out the culture is missing.

True, but when? If your premise below is correct, there's literally NO PLACE to put it. It can't be in May, or for heaven's sake, June, and God will literally crush you if you presume to make it July. August is for recovery, so leave that alone. The Vuelta has already moved once, so September is right out. February sounds SO good, except for that snow stuff that blankets the mountains in the US just as it does in EUR, so we could do it then, but no real climbs and then it doesn't count. Exactly WHEN do you suppose it should be placed so as not to mess up the GTs, the Classics, or become completely irrelevant? Gee, doesn't that sound elitist?

I would argue the opposite of your eliteist theory. Cycling is a sport for everyman in Europe, Jane/Joe Bloggs and their dog can stand and watch the races next to their house, whereas most Europeans fans see certain American riders influence as damaging the simple roots of the sport and introducing rampant commercialism and unbalanced reporting (because of the PR/celebrity angle and unwillingness to accept anything not tailored for the "American way"). In no other sport can the man in the street reach out and touch their heoroes and bringing in bodyguards and publicists distances people form the kid next door who made good. It seems that successful Americans in cycling do seem to be an oddity even in their own country and their percieved negative influence on the sport is seen as superiority and disrespect for history and culture of the poor-guys game, a kind-of dumbing-down for the TV-commercialville.

I can agree, but beating a whole country for a few idiots (and it IS a VERY few, btw, if you follow at all...) neglects the rest. I can't imagine how this argument does anything to help your cause. For every Lance and entourage, there's a Jonathan Vauters or a Bobby Julich or fifteen other riders you forget to mention. I'm sorry, but Lance did NOT write the book on either arrogance NOR commercialism and to suggest that he did tacitly admits a strong bias. Moreover, the bodyguards didn't come into play until there were real death threats (not that LA didn't earn them) and name one other US rider that has them...

 

[flicker]

I'm European and I'm dogpiling on the AToC. Not because I hate the AToC or America or American riders (some American riders can be very entertaining, although I prefer climbers and dislike defensive riders who build their gains in the TT, which rules out a lot of Anglophone riders as they often come from track backgrounds) - in the women's péloton, Mara Abbott is one of my absolute favourites.

What I'm dogpiling on is the hype. The hype may be necessary to try to sell it to people in the US, but it's absolutely preposterous and rings false at every turn. The race isn't part of the Historic calendar, which is one thing it will never be able to manage, but the hype seems to suggest that the race thinks it can bypass the whole 'building a history' thing. It thinks that by shouting loudly people will fail to notice the lack of a challenging parcours, and the depth of the péloton is like BMC - a strong veneer but ultimately lacking in top level talent beyond that top tier. If you have no history, the best way to make yourself taken seriously is by having a seriously challenging parcours - the kind that makes riders say "I want to have that on my palmarès. That race will show that I can do it at the top level". Instead they've gone for the 'don't offer it but say you did' approach.

It's not about the negative approach to cycling outside of Europe either. I'm not a fan of the globalisation of cycling mainly because it is forcing teams to race in races that are of no interest to their riders or sponsors at awkward times - QuickStep were worried that, if they had any injuries, they couldn't race the Giro, California and Belgium - and they should be allowed to race their home Tour, yes? Same goes for the new ProTour events in Canada, which will clash with the Vuelta, but also Britain and potentially Missouri too - and those three races will only really appeal to the same group of PT teams. This means more stresses placed on riders, and more required financially of sponsors, to which I say - can the sport really afford to put more stresses on its sponsors, when even absolute top teams like Saxo Bank and Caisse d'Epargne are looking at potential dissolution next year?

No, I like a lot of races outside of Europe. It's nice to see people who I don't normally get to see. The Vuelta a Colombia, for example, is one of the highlights of the season for me.

Please cut us some slack.

Some of the most exciting European climbers were nothing without our quality medical products. (Which were invented here in Cali)

examples: Riis,Viranque,Pantini,Jan, Vino, Boogard,Iban Mayo, Rico, Sella Rebbelin, Betini Cunego,many Spanish Portuguese, Colombian riders as well as your dreaded Anglophyle, defensive TT riders.

Check it out on You tube homeboy!

Please give us in California where credit is due.

 

[flicker]

I especially enjoyed watching Iban Mayo and Tyler Hamilton in the grand tours. Nice attacking style.

 

[flicker]

Liberine Seguros(the cleanteam) presented by Liberty Mutual Insurance USA.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

What's with the protests? I never said the US hadn't done anything for cycling. They've done plenty. I'm talking about trying to sell the AToC as a fourth Grand Tour, as on a par with the likes of the Dauphiné. I'm getting defensive because it was implied that Europeans who ridicule those claims do so because they are against anything outside of Europe joining the cycling world, which is patently not the case.

 

[flicker]

We go to war with the army we have. D. Rummsfield

ToC best we have here. Never been to the Dolemites, Alps Mur.

Saw pictures of them in International Cycle Sport though.

The other night I was able to talk to Pedro Horrilo, a blessing, like meeting an angel.

Got to pull pace along Hennie Kuiper and joke with him while we were riding.

Got to meet Lars Boom. Not so bad, cost much less then a ticket to Milan.

Don't believe the hype. Public Enemy. Where is Flaver Flav now?

It is all about having fun.

If the Giro ran through my home town I would go out there by the side of the road. I guess I will settle for the 2 bit tour of California. Go Lars Boom!

 

[TRDean]

We go to war with the army we have. D. Rummsfield

ToC best we have here. Never been to the Dolemites, Alps Mur.

Saw pictures of them in International Cycle Sport though.

The other night I was able to talk to Pedro Horrilo, a blessing, like meeting an angel.

Got to pull pace along Hennie Kuiper and joke with him while we were riding.

Got to meet Lars Boom. Not so bad, cost much less then a ticket to Milan.

Don't believe the hype. Public Enemy. Where is Flaver Flav now?

It is all about having fun.

If the Giro ran through my home town I would go out there by the side of the road. I guess I will settle for the 2 bit tour of California. Go Lars Boom!

What was meeting Lars like? Laid back fello?

 

[flicker]

What was meeting Lars like? Laid back fello?

Lars reminds me of a Scandinavian Viking. Totally confident, humble positive and smiling.
All the Rabobank are laidback and cool. Last year I met Gesink and one of his teamates. I rode with them in the city of Monterey and they obeyed every traffic law. True professionals. Good PR for the sport. They are all friendly and speak Engish well enough.

My friends got to do the whole ToC with Oscar Fierre. I think . The woman had a major crush on him. He is cool too.

 

[TRDean]

Lars reminds me of a Scandinavian Viking. Totally confident, humble positive and smiling.
All the Rabobank are laidback and cool. Last year I met Gesink and one of his teamates. I rode with them in the city of Monterey and they obeyed every traffic law. True professionals. Good PR for the sport. They are all friendly and speak Engish well enough.

My friends got to do the whole ToC with Oscar Fierre. I think . The woman had a major crush on him. He is cool too.

Thanks flicker...that is great to hear. I really hope Boom has a great career on the road...I like his style. I am jealous that you are getting to meet and ride with them. Do you think they are enjoying their time at the ToC? I mean with all the travel, etc.