issoisso said:
Happy to go with last year. Personally I think you'd find near the top Cali beats TDU though it is slanted towards GC riders as opposed to sprinters, but for great riders top to bottom TDU takes it PT helps that along.
- Mar 18, 2009
- 745
- 0
- 0
Still laughing at the Lars Boom sushi quote...
For me I just can't get my head around the move from February to May. It seemed to be a really really good fit in Feb, securing it a permanent place in the calendar against other early season races.
But now, against the Giro....I just don't get it. Or appreciate it.
I even found the weather in February to be a positive part of the race...something that could become one of it's "things"....i.e. you never know what you're going to get at the ToC.
For me I just can't get my head around the move from February to May. It seemed to be a really really good fit in Feb, securing it a permanent place in the calendar against other early season races.
But now, against the Giro....I just don't get it. Or appreciate it.
I even found the weather in February to be a positive part of the race...something that could become one of it's "things"....i.e. you never know what you're going to get at the ToC.
karlboss said:
Average CQRanking points of the California top 20: 402,15
Average CQRanking points of the TDU top 20: 528,1
And as you said, since TDU is ProTour, if we go top to bottom the difference will be a lot bigger.
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
The comparison with Poland is also erroneous - there were larger names racing in the Tour de Pologne, such as Ivan Basso, but the race wasn't exactly tailored to them. You had some half-decent sprinters there (Greipel, Brown, Weylandt, Roelandts, Haedo, Napolitano, Bozic, Davis, Furlan, Guarnieri, Förster, Seba Chavanel and Boasson Hagen isn't a bad lineup) but they won't feature in a GC map, so balancing the races against each other using the GC isn't representative.
You also need to look at where a race is in the calendar before comparing. What was the Tour of California up against last year? Very little really. It still has a better lineup of GC riders this year, sure, but then it's sacrificing being the main race at the time. In early August last year, Poland obviously wouldn't get TDF contenders because the Tour had just finished. It was up against the Vuelta a Burgos and the Volta a Portugal, both of which took some Vuelta preppers away from it. But neither are bigger races than Poland, and Poland was the only one with international coverage. California has the coverage, but it's in the inferior position this year because it's up against the Giro.
And to whoever it was who said about California aiming to be the top warmup race for the Tour that isn't the Giro, I say 'Dauphiné, Tour de Suisse...'
You also need to look at where a race is in the calendar before comparing. What was the Tour of California up against last year? Very little really. It still has a better lineup of GC riders this year, sure, but then it's sacrificing being the main race at the time. In early August last year, Poland obviously wouldn't get TDF contenders because the Tour had just finished. It was up against the Vuelta a Burgos and the Volta a Portugal, both of which took some Vuelta preppers away from it. But neither are bigger races than Poland, and Poland was the only one with international coverage. California has the coverage, but it's in the inferior position this year because it's up against the Giro.
And to whoever it was who said about California aiming to be the top warmup race for the Tour that isn't the Giro, I say 'Dauphiné, Tour de Suisse...'
karlboss said:
So your idea is to keep shifting the goalposts until you find something, anything that slightly supports your claim, eh?
Top 10, the difference is even more massive. 442,5 vs 621,2
issoisso said:So your idea is to keep shifting the goalposts until you find something, anything that slightly supports your claim, eh?
Top 10, the difference is even more massive. 442,5 vs 621,2
Funny 2009 2010 TDU 2009 ToC I get 435.9 621.2 641.4 respectively...so how do you get your numbers?
I'm doing top 10 and their CQ points at the end of the year.
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
Amgen Tour of California is the future. The reason why only 16 teams are participating in 2010 is simply because 2009 was a bad year for AEG economically.
Next year they hope to add 2 extra stages and gain ProTour status. You already see big stars choosing Amgen Tour of California over Giro d'Italia (Cavendish, Cancellara, Armstrong etc). With the growth of American sponsors, this race will only get bigger and better.
It's very sad for Giro d'Italia because it's by far the most interesting race and has alot of history.
Next year they hope to add 2 extra stages and gain ProTour status. You already see big stars choosing Amgen Tour of California over Giro d'Italia (Cavendish, Cancellara, Armstrong etc). With the growth of American sponsors, this race will only get bigger and better.
It's very sad for Giro d'Italia because it's by far the most interesting race and has alot of history.
karlboss said:one of our maths is wrong, I'm tipping yours
Given Maths is a part of my daily work, I'm tipping yours
armstrong4ever said:
That's funny, tell me another one
I'd tell you why you're wrong, but the factors why those riders "chose" California (hint: they didn't) have already been posted a trillion times in this topic.
- Feb 18, 2010
- 882
- 0
- 0
armstrong4ever said:
- Armstrong: American for an American team, who'd get his *** handed to him in the Giro
- Cavendish: on record as saying he'd much rather do the Giro, but he has to ride Cali for the sponsors
- Cancellara: choosing the easier route for his first race back after spring Classics. Boonen has even said he picked Cali over Tour of Belgium because the former is more relaxing
- Mar 10, 2009
- 7,268
- 1
- 0
issoisso said:That's funny, tell me another one
I think USA today (well yesterday...) had an article on the ToC. No mention of the Giro so far, but hey who cares.
The article compared the ToC with the Dauphine. A bit further Sherwen said that it will be the 4th grand tour in a couple of years, or even the third, replacing the Vuelta, because there are so few spectators along the roads in Spain.
Oh, and money is much more abundant in the USA. (Although, if GEICO, or Warren Buffet, sees cycling as a cheap way of advertising - see this year's Giro on universal - we might see more companies get on the bandwagon.)
Funny enough?
- Sep 25, 2009
- 7,527
- 1
- 0
armstrong4ever said:
how about me ? can i ?
before i hear your permission i'll tell you that toc has no future. i mean protour future.
it will shrink back to the local competition status as the current generation of american pros who are in their late 30th retires. only a small number of european riders will ever be interested in a race oceans away from the center of their competition and base. california is a nice state with very active sporting tradition. but cycle racing is and always will be based in europe and the major sponsors will not allow it to change.
python said:
Well, according to riders of Team RadioShack and HTC - Columbia it's the 2nd biggest race in the world for them.
For Rabobank, Saxo Bank and Garmin it's also very important
Maybe I'm too optimistic but the potential is there.
- Mar 19, 2009
- 2,121
- 565
- 13,080
karlboss said:one of our maths is wrong, I'm tipping yours
Can I join in?
Based on numbers from the last CQ ranking of 2009:
TDU 2010 CQ-points END 2009
1. GREIPEL Andre 1391
2. SANCHEZ GIL Luis Leon 1117
3. HENDERSON Gregory 504
4. MCEWEN Robbie 268
5. ROBERTS Luke 11
6. EVANS Cadel 1895
7. VORGANOV Eduard 151
8. ROELANDTS Jürgen 507
9. HUNTER Robert 248
10. FOTHEN Markus 126
Combined: 6218
Average: 621,8
ToC 2009 CQ-points END 2009
1. LEIPHEIMER Levi 810
2. ZABRISKIE David 525
3. ROGERS Michael 776
4. VOIGT Jens 546
5. LÖFKVIST Thomas 649
6. NIBALI Vincenzo 979
7. ARMSTRONG Lance 630
8. GESINK Robert 1064
9. DANIELSON Tom 263
10. RUBIERA VIGIL Jose Luis 80
Combined: 6322
Average: 632,2
One could definitely argue that the ToC top10 all have their points from that particular race included, whereas a rider like f.i. Luke Roberts (obviously) didn't have his points from TDU 2010 included in the ranking of ´09...
May have plotted some wrong numbers in, but I guess Excel doesn't lie
- Mar 19, 2009
- 2,121
- 565
- 13,080
armstrong4ever said:
Pretty logic statement, since these two teams are American based.... I'm guessing Milram have some minor German races as high priorities, Saxo definitely rank Post Danmark Rundt highly etc... all teams should naturally focus a bit more when a race is national.
Yeah, ToC will definitely be a big race if a lot more cycling teams become American...and that's it.
armstrong4ever said:
I know where this topic is going, so I don't think I'm coming in here again, but just for the hell of it I'll just remind you (or inform you if you're not aware) that many years ago, a truckload of american fans were 100% convinced that the Tour DuPont (that was at the time in the same situation California is in now) was on its way to being the biggest race in the world.
Guess how that turned out
I would have more confidence in the T of C growing, were it not for DuPont, Georgia and now, Missouri...........
It's development will last just as long as the current top US cyclists and accompanying sponsors.
After that, it's on a wing and a prayer.
It's development will last just as long as the current top US cyclists and accompanying sponsors.
After that, it's on a wing and a prayer.
TRENDING THREADS
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s RR, September 28- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 2K
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 36K
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 41K
-
Il Lombardia 2025, monument, October 11- Started by Krzysztof_O
- Replies: 792
-
Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread- Started by RedheadDane
- Replies: 13K
-
European Championship 2025: Men’s RR, October 5- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 854
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram