Todays idiot masters fattie doper

[Oldman]

Yes, Ford was part of it and now they have pulled it

http://www.businessinsider.com/ford...-who-helped-bring-down-lance-armstrong-2014-8

...and my question:
+1 RR. If I'd seen this cold, without warning I would certainly have choked. Could the marketing staff be any more clueless, though? I mean, the commercials have significant enough production cost to at least vet the actors somewhat.....Oh, maybe they did. That would be really heinous.
Looks like someone in marketing may lose their job.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between Kayle doing an ad for Ford and getting paid out by people, vilified.

And David Millar part-owning Slipstream.
JV running Slipstream.
Hincapie having a development team.
Riis being paid millions to run a team he just sold for millions.


I mean. Fancy calling someone still racing Cat 1 a fattie. Pretty sure he'd school most posters in a crit, right?

What am I missing? Kayle bad, other ex-dopers good?

 

[Energy Starr]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between Kayle doing an ad for Ford and getting paid out by people, vilified.

And David Millar part-owning Slipstream.
JV running Slipstream.
Hincapie having a development team.
Riis being paid millions to run a team he just sold for millions.


I mean. Fancy calling someone still racing Cat 1 a fattie. Pretty sure he'd school most posters in a crit, right?

What am I missing? Kayle bad, other ex-dopers good?

No, I think It's just to point out the cluelessness of the general public. Obviously the situations you mentioned point that out as well, perhaps moreso because those people are more famous and the audience is people who should know. Maybe Ford was just naive. I'd also argue that we're calling the intended audience fatties rather than Kayle himself. Yes, he'd whup the you know what out of me in a crit.

 

[leftover pie]

It was these guys, dopers all, who infused the boom, not only for Boomers but everyone. It was their celebrity that expedited the excitement. And in addition it was way cheaper than golf memberships, green fees or golf clubs.

However, these cheats also represent a crushing disappointment, a disastrous legacy and a pronounced betrayal, to we the gullible. There is no N.A. cyclist today who inspires cycling. It remains to be seen how that will affect it's popularity in North America.

I wonder did the doping in masters cycling and so on only develop once these guys were exposed as dopers, or did it follow a natural progression at the beginning of this boom?

Is there a constant % of people willing to "do whatever it takes to win" - and since the blinkers have come off (for a lot of people) has this % risen?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'd also argue that we're calling the intended audience fatties rather than Kayle himself. Yes, he'd whup the you know what out of me in a crit.

Ah gotcha - I misread.

 

[Energy Starr]

I wonder did the doping in masters cycling and so on only develop once these guys were exposed as dopers, or did it follow a natural progression at the beginning of this boom?

Is there a constant % of people willing to "do whatever it takes to win" - and since the blinkers have come off (for a lot of people) has this % risen?

I think it coincided with all the low-t "therapy" going on now. I have never seen so many commercials urging the semi-permanent altering of one's body chemistry. It's not just cycling, it's all of society.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think it coincided with all the low-t "therapy" going on now. I have never seen so many commercials urging the semi-permanent altering of one's body chemistry. It's not just cycling, it's all of TV-watching, non-AdBlock using society.

Have not seen a single commercial advertising this stuff. Any Aussies seen it?

Coz I might have to add "US" just before that "society" too.


I do mute commercials and watch family-time viewing, if ever. Mostly watch movies or series recorded sans ads.

 

[42x16ss]

Have not seen a single commercial advertising this stuff. Any Aussies seen it?

Coz I might have to add "US" just before that "society" too.


I do mute commercials and watch family-time viewing, if ever. Mostly watch movies or series recorded sans ads.

It's not really advertised in your face here yet, but it's certainly around. I recently saw an episode of Head First where Sabour Bradley looks at anti-aging clinics and what they have to offer in terms of physical enhancement and "anti aging". It's scary what you can get your hands on easily here, and frightening what you can get hold of relatively safely in SE Asia. Give it a look, it's still available on ABC iView.

 

[Race Radio]

Fancy calling someone still racing Cat 1 a fattie. Pretty sure he'd school most posters in a crit, right?

What am I missing? Kayle bad, other ex-dopers good?

Beyond being a doper, and allegedly a supplier, Kayle is also a jerk. Back when he used to be a Pro he told Suzanne Sonye about the various products he was using and asked her to help him some get some more. He figured she was a former Pro and could help him dope up even more.....instead she told the team manager, Frankie Andreu, who reported it to USADA.

Quickly it became clear that the team was not only not going to do anything about it but they saw Suzanne and Frankie as the problem, not Kayle. They were both gone shortly afterward.

Next Kayle stepped up his campaign against Suzanne. Smearing her to whoever would listen. He then filed defamation suit against Suzanne in an attempt to harass her into being quiet. She was unemployed and had to spend over $10,000 defending herself.....even though she was telling the truth and Kayle knew it.

As for the Fattie part. The first time I heard questions about Kayle's doping was years ago from a friend who was one of the best domestic based Pro's. He was in a race, on a long climb, and looked over and there is Kayle. A guy who no way should have been able to keep up with the skinny climbers. He told me his first thought was "What is this fat guy doing here?"

 

[proffate]

Next Kayle stepped up his campaign against Suzanne. Smearing her to whoever would listen. He then filed defamation suit against Suzanne in an attempt to harass her into being quiet. She was unemployed and had to spend over $10,000 defending herself.....even though she was telling the truth and Kayle knew it.

She won the case and Kayle was ordered to pay her legal fees. He's still paying them off (takes a lot of 35+ victory checks to total $10,000). While it doesn't excuse him, I see that fiasco as more of an indication that Kayle was really really stupid and counseled by vile people (Rock Racing). I think that experience was very humbling for Kayle. There are lots of racers in socal who are more prone to roid rage these days. Of all the racers out there who used drugs to achieve fame and fortune and got away with a slap on the wrist, Kayle is not one of them --- he achieved no fortune, in fact he was bankrupted by it, and his career ended at its peak.

I don't really see the problem with Kayle promoting Ford. I mean do you want him to starve? He's gotta make money somehow.

 

[Race Radio]

She won the case and Kayle was ordered to pay her legal fees. He's still paying them off (takes a lot of 35+ victory checks to total $10,000). While it doesn't excuse him, I see that fiasco as more of an indication that Kayle was really really stupid and counseled by vile people (Rock Racing). I think that experience was very humbling for Kayle. There are lots of racers in socal who are more prone to roid rage these days. Of all the racers out there who used drugs to achieve fame and fortune and got away with a slap on the wrist, Kayle is not one of them --- he achieved no fortune, in fact he was bankrupted by it, and his career ended at its peak.

I don't really see the problem with Kayle promoting Ford. I mean do you want him to starve? He's gotta make money somehow.

The only impact on Suzanne, Frankie, and Matt's life was financial? He was just a puppet of Michael Ball? Kayle's actions were less bad because he did not make a ton of cash? Sorry, I don't buy any of that.

Don't forget, Kayle also sued USADA to try to force them to keep quiet and not retro test his samples. He failed

Ford is free to use whoever they like in their ads, just as we are free to question their use of a guy who ingested a pharmacy then smeared and harassed anyone who told the truth.

You hear Kayle has been humbled......I hear he is back to his old tricks.

 

[proffate]

The only impact on Suzanne, Frankie, and Matt's life was financial? He was just a puppet of Michael Ball? Kayle's actions were less bad because he did not make a ton of cash? Sorry, I don't buy any of that.

uh yes, it is more just and less upsetting because his fall was so hard compared to e.g. Hincapie getting away scott free.

Let me flip that line of reasoning around on you. Were his actions more bad because Suzanne was unemployed? You seem to think so or why mention her employment status?

Ford is free to use whoever they like in their ads, just as we are free to question their use of a guy who ingested a pharmacy then smeared and harassed anyone who told the truth.

When Lance went on Oprah, did you criticize her for using a dirty rotten cheater and drug trafficker to boost her viewership? That's worse to me than this. Clearly Ford is not using Kayle's cycling notoriety to make money, as he has no notoriety. Unlike DZ, who still makes money off of DZ Nuts due to ill-gotten fame. Honestly in Ford's case it's probably the tattoos that are intended to appeal to a certain demographic. Saying Kayle should die penniless and hungry under a bridge somewhere just makes you sound bitter.

You hear Kayle has been humbled......I hear he is back to his old tricks.

I don't hear it.. I know him personally. He might very well be doping, but (a) I don't think he can afford it and (b) I don't see him turning in any ridiculous performances at the local crits.

 

[Race Radio]

uh yes, it is more just and less upsetting because his fall was so hard compared to e.g. Hincapie getting away scott free.

Have you seen any of my posts on Hincapie? It is absurd that he, and Levi, did everything Lance did (Except the lawsuits ans harassment) and walked away with a ton of cash.

When Lance went on Oprah, did you criticize her for using a dirty rotten cheater and drug trafficker to boost her viewership?

Yes, I did. Multiple times. Oprah used him. If he wanted to talk he should have talked to USADA

Saying Kayle should die penniless and hungry under a bridge somewhere just makes you sound bitter.

Holy Hyperbole! Where did I say this?

 

[Berzin]

Proffate-stop with the off-topic baiting. If you don't understand what I'm referring to, the two statements below should suffice.

Let me flip that line of reasoning around on you.Were his actions more bad because Suzanne was unemployed? You seem to think so or why mention her employment status?

Saying Kayle should die penniless and hungry under a bridge somewhere just makes you sound bitter.

 

[Energy Starr]

Have not seen a single commercial advertising this stuff. Any Aussies seen it?

Coz I might have to add "US" just before that "society" too.


I do mute commercials and watch family-time viewing, if ever. Mostly watch movies or series recorded sans ads.

You can add US. I'm surprised it hasn't reached Austrailia yet. How about Viagra ads, those are nonstop here also? I guess they go together. I don't really watch much tv, but when I do, I'll bet two of every three ads is low T therapy or ed meds (maybe that says something about what I watch, huh?) Everyone wants a friggin pill to improve their performance in every aspect of their life.

 

[Race Radio]

Were his actions more bad because Suzanne was unemployed? You seem to think so or why mention her employment status?

His actions were "More Bad" because he threatened Suzanne, so much that she fled the team camp. The threats were so significant that USADA had to hire security for her, the first time they have ever done this.

He still harasses her to this day, as recently as a few weeks ago at a race. You say he has changed, his victims say he is the same old narcissistic

 

[Scott SoCal]

Leogrande is one of the most repulsive individuals to ever walk the face of the Earth. He is Papp-esque.

Do you know Kayle?

 

[eporesis]

http://www.usada.org/us-cycling-athlete-martin-receives-sanction-rule-violation/

Martin, 40, failed to appear to provide a sample at the New Jersey Criterium Championships on May 18, 2014, in Evesham Township, N.J. Failure to appear for testing is a violation of the applicable rules under the USADA Protocol for Olympic Movement Testing and the International Cycling Union (UCI) Anti-Doping Rules, both of which have adopted the World Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Agency Prohibited List. Martin’s two-year period of ineligibility began on August 15, 2014, the date the sanction was imposed. As a result of the violation, Martin has been disqualified from all competitive results achieved on and subsequent to May 18, 2014, including forfeiture of any medals, points, and prizes.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

On Velonews too:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...ersey-receives-sanction-rule-violation_341714

In the last few years, Martin has competed in a mix of masters and open-category races.

 

[DirtyWorks]

On Velonews too:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...ersey-receives-sanction-rule-violation_341714

USAC still hasn't taken down his results. But, I expect that to change. The guy did well in his region and age-group going back to 2007.

I would be very interested to hear what he was using since he walked away from probably his first test.

 

[eporesis]

There's much more testing in US east coast races these days. Ten years ago, you could get tested at Univest, Philly, and Fitchburg, and nowhere else. There seems to be ten times as tests now. It also seems like the same cohort draws most of the positives.

 

[MarkvW]

There's much more testing in US east coast races these days. Ten years ago, you could get tested at Univest, Philly, and Fitchburg, and nowhere else. There seems to be ten times as tests now. It also seems like the same cohort draws most of the positives.

What sort of cohort? Age cohort, regional cohort, team cohort?

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

I don't know if there is enough information to assess properly, but it does seem as if the "success" rate of doping control in US masters racing is high compared with the typical rate of less than 0.5% of all tests. I wouldn't be surprised if it were at least 10 times higher.

Presumably that's a combination of any or all of:
- more doping
- more doping at that level relative to other
- better targeting of doping controls
- better intelligence / leads
- more dopes (failing the IQ test)

 

[Oldman]

I don't know if there is enough information to assess properly, but it does seem as if the "success" rate of doping control in US masters racing is high compared with the typical rate of less than 0.5% of all tests. I wouldn't be surprised if it were at least 10 times higher.

Presumably that's a combination of any or all of:
- more doping
- more doping at that level relative to other
- better targeting of doping controls
- better intelligence / leads
- more dopes (failing the IQ test)

Last year they popped the 60+ year old guy that didn't podium. He blew the tri-fecta: stimulants, roids, epo. He was a known gasser from way back so his profile as multiple Natz & World Champ made it obvious.

 

[eporesis]

What sort of cohort? Age cohort, regional cohort, team cohort?

Sorry, age cohort, that is, late boomers and GenX, for all the reasons Alex said. I'd add that some are marginal racers who always doped (leDuc) and others who simply feel entitled (Anthony).

I just looked over the USADA sanctions list, and there's also the obvious category/cohort of "those who have raced for Mengoni." That's not so much Fred's legacy as John Issendorf's (Mr "the finish line is the bottom line"),