Todays idiot masters fattie doper

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Mar 16, 2013
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Catwhoorg said:
This seems like a good place to comment on this study about over prescribing of testosterone in middle aged men.

If the UK is considered to be over prescribing testosterone patches, gels etc, what does this graphic say about the US ? (beyond advertising sells)

It says that while the majority of people in the US don't think other people should use drugs, most are OK doing drugs themselves.

It also says that people want to feel young and if you can slap a youthpatch on with a doctors script, they'll do it.
 
Aug 10, 2012
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US Cycling Athlete, Robertson, Accepts Sanction For Anti-Doping Rule Violation

Provigil / modafinil

http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-robertson5814

“After having served a suspension in 2011, I never expected to find myself in this situation again,” said Todd Robertson. “I was very aware and conscious of all supplements I took in the last 2+ years and have been tested several times since with those in my system. While I will not be racing any sanctioned events in the future, and although I still do not know how or why a banned stimulant was found in my system, I very much respect USADA and the process.”
 
Apr 13, 2011
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jw1979 said:
It says that while the majority of people in the US don't think other people should use drugs, most are OK doing drugs themselves.

It also says that people want to feel young and if you can slap a youthpatch on with a doctors script, they'll do it.
Indeed, ignorance is bliss. Especially when under the guise of, "oh, I have allergies, must take drugs to breathe."

Provigil / modafinil. Sounds like something that would be hidden in your typical "Jacked" supplement as a mystery ingredient. Take enough caffeine, you will get the same effect to an extent. Should ban caffeine as well while WADA is at it.

"The following substances included in the 2014 Monitoring Program (bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, synephrine) are not considered as Prohibited Substances.
** Cathine is prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater than 5 micrograms per milliliter.
*** Each of ephedrine and methylephedrine is prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater than 10 micrograms per milliliter.
**** Local administration (e.g. nasal, ophthalmologic) of epinephrine (adrenaline) or co-administration with local anaesthetic agents is not prohibited."

Oh look, ephedrine is OK to actually take!
 
jw1979 said:
It says that while the majority of people in the US don't think other people should use drugs, most are OK doing drugs themselves.

It also says that people want to feel young and if you can slap a youthpatch on with a doctors script, they'll do it.
10% (100/1000) is a majority?
 
Feb 26, 2014
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Provigil is insanely expensive, however there's a prodrug called adrafinil that converts to provigil (not sold in the US though). I doubt it would be added to a stimulant cocktail in an OTC supp.

Provigil is a nice addition to tramadol bc it helps perk you up and minimizes the dopey effect, while still maximizing the pain killer/upper effects.



zigmeister said:
Indeed, ignorance is bliss. Especially when under the guise of, "oh, I have allergies, must take drugs to breathe."

Provigil / modafinil. Sounds like something that would be hidden in your typical "Jacked" supplement as a mystery ingredient. Take enough caffeine, you will get the same effect to an extent. Should ban caffeine as well while WADA is at it.

"The following substances included in the 2014 Monitoring Program (bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, synephrine) are not considered as Prohibited Substances.
** Cathine is prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater than 5 micrograms per milliliter.
*** Each of ephedrine and methylephedrine is prohibited when its concentration in urine is greater than 10 micrograms per milliliter.
**** Local administration (e.g. nasal, ophthalmologic) of epinephrine (adrenaline) or co-administration with local anaesthetic agents is not prohibited."

Oh look, ephedrine is OK to actually take!
 
Aug 10, 2012
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Provigil isn't that expensive if you're not popping it like adderall. It's Rx in the US. It enjoys a cult among the Ayn Rand worshiping executive set, and students cramming for exams. Adrafinil isn't scheduled here, and easy to get. I don't think a urine test would show a distinction between the two, but I'm happy to be corrected on that. Adrafinil has some long term problems causing liver damage. So do a lot of oral steroids, for that matter. Regardless, adrafinil and modafinil don't end up in contaminated supps like DHEA or methylhexaneamine. There's more to be gained by taking some caffeine and claiming an athsma for an albuterol TUE. I like that the dude was "very aware and conscious of all supplements I took." I can understand a distinction between awareness and consciousness, but not in that sentence. Maybe he meant to say conscientious. Clearly, he's not a master of details.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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eporesis said:
US Cycling Athlete, Robertson, Accepts Sanction For Anti-Doping Rule Violation

Provigil / modafinil
That's my age group. I didn't stick around for the crit this year so I do not know if there was testing at the crit. (There wasn't any testing at the crit in 2011 and 2012.)

Anyway, combined there were 9 tests on 7 athletes in the RR and TT in 2012 and 2013 in 50-54. 2 were positive, Meeker in 2012 and Robertson in 2013.

22.2% of the tests were positive, 28.6% of the athlete's tested were positive. (In 50-54 in 2012 and 2013 combined.) It makes me sad.

In 2013 they added randoms. In my age group they picked 1 random in the TT and 2 in the RR. Robertson was a "random" pick in the RR. My guess/assumption based on who was picked for a "random" in 2013 was that they wanted to test those guys and they didn't get pulled from a hat. Robertson surely because he had tested positive previously and the other two possibly rumor mill or innuendo. The other two are still racing in 2014 so I am assuming that their tests were clean. I assume that based on the fact that both Meeker and Robertson didn't race after their positive because they took the provisional suspension while the process finished. Time will tell if my assumption is correct.

FYI, in 2011 they tested the winner in the RR and TT. In 2012 they tested 1st and 2nd in the RR and TT. 2013 was as I mentioned above.
 
Oct 14, 2012
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Agreed - it certainly is sad.

What is also sad (for me as a fan of cycling) is that local competitive cycling here in the US is so dominated by masters. I know cycling is the new golf here and that for prime-age athletes (18-30) cycling is a tiny niche, but I do wish there was less emphasis on masters. For sure, I would like to see an end to masters "teams" - this just encourages wannabe pro behavior - I never understand why these teams exist - why don't they ride for their local clubs?

In the twilight of our years we should be riding with smiles on our faces, a high degree of camaraderie and, in a style that sets a great example to the youngsters.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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TrackCynic said:
Agreed - it certainly is sad.

What is also sad (for me as a fan of cycling) is that local competitive cycling here in the US is so dominated by masters. I know cycling is the new golf here and that for prime-age athletes (18-30) cycling is a tiny niche, but I do wish there was less emphasis on masters. For sure, I would like to see an end to masters "teams" - this just encourages wannabe pro behavior - I never understand why these teams exist - why don't they ride for their local clubs?

In the twilight of our years we should be riding with smiles on our faces, a high degree of camaraderie and, in a style that sets a great example to the youngsters.
It's a numbers game. There are a ton of masters racers and a small number of Cat 1/2/Pro riders. By adding in a 35+ 1/2/3, 35+ 4/5, 45+ 1/2/3 and 45+ 4/5 you bring in four times the income as you would from the P/1/2 race. Since most masters races have smaller prize lists you can use those masters riders entries for the P/1/2 men and women prize lists.

To your other point, why should we care whether or not older people race or form teams? Some master's rider mentor juniors. Some are selfish. Some are really nice and some are not. Some dope, some (most I hope) don't. If somebody enjoys racing and they aren't in their 20's anymore why should they stop of it makes them happy? You may not like them, but if you take away those numbers many races get a lot more expensive or harder to make happen financially.
 
Oct 14, 2012
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True - and I'm no way advocating people stopping competing when they get older - far from it, I think it's great - cycling is one of the few sports where we older guys can survive because it's a combination of athleticism, tactics and skill, plus it's pretty low impact. I'd just like to see us take it a bit less seriously. To me (and this is just my opinion), being a member of a team with no geographic or demographic roots (i.e. not a club) is an indication of *potentially* taking it too seriously. I'd also like to see those masters involved in local clubs because they'd be more inclined to mentor more juniors of mixed abilities and not just the elite juniors attached to the elite teams.
 
TrackCynic said:
Agreed - it certainly is sad.

What is also sad (for me as a fan of cycling) is that local competitive cycling here in the US is so dominated by masters. I know cycling is the new golf here and that for prime-age athletes (18-30) cycling is a tiny niche, but I do wish there was less emphasis on masters. For sure, I would like to see an end to masters "teams" - this just encourages wannabe pro behavior - I never understand why these teams exist - why don't they ride for their local clubs?

In the twilight of our years we should be riding with smiles on our faces, a high degree of camaraderie and, in a style that sets a great example to the youngsters.
Without the masters, the viability of the sport at local/regional level would be seriously jeopardised. Masters membership subsidises most such races. And they are far more likely to be local sponsors too.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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I wonder what the impact would be on cycling - anywhere - if you did what trackcycnic wants and booted all the masters racers? That's a lot of license fees and race entry fees suddenly disappearing from the cycling scene overnight.

As a masters aged rider / racer myself, I hold the following attitude: You are never too old to have a fantastic childhood.
 
Jun 16, 2010
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Cycling's popularity as the "new golf" in North America in large part is due to the faux "successes" of the now infamous dopers who were on the pro tour from about 1990 to the present. The list is long and tawdry and need not reproduce it here.

The effect of these "successes" non the less kick-started the present boom in cycling. Unfortunately the dopers exhibited a certain swagger, egomania and truculence many men associate with athletic prowess ( I wonder who the model for that could be?) The result is many masters wannabes have a notion of winning on a par with the culture of doping in the peloton. Hence the resort to PEDs. What has occurred is the creation of the same culture at another demographic level.

This culture is a sad indictment of the lack of class in those who chose to cheat. In my experience in athletics after ones core competitive days are over the beauty of continuing to participate in sport is best exemplified by the camaraderie (as Track Cynic points out). That does not mean the competitive aspect of sport is gone, far from it, but the obsessed really need to either chill out or get out.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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RobbieCanuck said:
Cycling's popularity as the "new golf" in North America in large part is due to the faux "successes" of the now infamous dopers who were on the pro tour from about 1990 to the present. The list is long and tawdry and need not reproduce it here.

The effect of these "successes" non the less kick-started the present boom in cycling. Unfortunately the dopers exhibited a certain swagger, egomania and truculence many men associate with athletic prowess ( I wonder who the model for that could be?) The result is many masters wannabes have a notion of winning on a par with the culture of doping in the peloton. Hence the resort to PEDs. What has occurred is the creation of the same culture at another demographic level.

This culture is a sad indictment of the lack of class in those who chose to cheat. In my experience in athletics after ones core competitive days are over the beauty of continuing to participate in sport is best exemplified by the camaraderie (as Track Cynic points out). That does not mean the competitive aspect of sport is gone, far from it, but the obsessed really need to either chill out or get out.


+1. Couldn't agree more even for some pros. Success is partly athletic prowess but a greater portion of tactical skill. Favorite description of ego driven rider: "Strong, like tractor".
 
RobbieCanuck said:
Cycling's popularity as the "new golf" in North America in large part is due to the faux "successes" of the now infamous dopers who were on the pro tour from about 1990 to the present.
Is it really that, or just the weight of demographics? e.g. baby boomer generation
 
Jun 16, 2010
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Alex Simmons/RST said:
Is it really that, or just the weight of demographics? e.g. baby boomer generation
I am the leading edge of the Baby Boom, born in 1947. I enjoyed cycling from a distance until Greg LeMond won his TDF titles. Me and a lot of then 40 year olds got psyched and I bought my first road bike in 1987. But the bump in popularity in North American due to LeMond was modest.

It was the exploits of Armstrong, Hincapie, Hamilton, Andreu, Leipheimer, Vaughters, Landis, Danielson, Van de Velde, Zabriski and Livingston etal that inspired the cycling boom in North America. It was no longer only a European sport at the top, and bikes were flying off the shelves.

It was these guys, dopers all, who infused the boom, not only for Boomers but everyone. It was their celebrity that expedited the excitement. And in addition it was way cheaper than golf memberships, green fees or golf clubs.

However, these cheats also represent a crushing disappointment, a disastrous legacy and a pronounced betrayal, to we the gullible. There is no N.A. cyclist today who inspires cycling. It remains to be seen how that will affect it's popularity in North America.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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^Unfortunately people look to others to be "inspired". Why? I don't know. I'm 20yrs younger than you, been riding since high school/competing since mid-late 80s. I can assure you, I wouldn't have been able to tell you who any pro cyclist was on Earth at the time. I've always been a high level athlete, competed in several sports, collegiate level/scholarships etc..I didn't/never have looked to others for "inspiration" and haven't been influenced by other people. I just like to compete and motivate myself in life. That goes for all things. Not just sports.

For a portion of the population, maybe they were influenced. But hey, don't blame someone else for being so gullible and having no will/drive and sense in your noggin' to know most/half is bullcrap when it comes to marketing/selling products and putting people on a pedal stool.

As others have mentioned, yes, good luck when it comes to master's racing to keep these events going. It won't happen. That will be the end of cycling in most places. The people that can afford to pay for the expensive equipment, entry fees, cost to play, are the people who have jobs that typically pay fairly well, more affluent.

Shoot, I took top 4 in a race a few weeks ago, all I got was $15 out of it. Entry fee was $40, plus gas/time...still cost me $40 just to show up and race. And that was a local event I drove to 45 minutes away. Not a trip across the State I live, hotel/food etc. Kids can't do/afford this, or less affluent people in general without financial help/sponsors...and those are once again, the older people in the sport mentoring/raising kids to compete.

I find it absolutely insane that most of the US now thinks marijuana should be a legalized drug and allowed for people 18yrs and older, but have some issue with a guy with a Testosterone level of 200ng/mL (that of an 80yr old man at age 40yr as an example) taking a prescribed/controlled manufactured FDA drug that is bio-identical, and then label that person as some kind of "doper"?

The logic is a huge fail IMO. I can go on and on, shall we talk alcohol and the effects it has on people and lives? But let's party everybody!!

Oh wait, how about how hypothyroidism has many of the exact same symptoms as low-T. It is important to health/life/quality of life. It doesn't make you superman by taking it. But without it, all sorts of health problems. levothyroxine sodium (synthetic T4) isn't even on the WADA list. And according to the list, it is a prohibited substance. Funny how nobody has ever been popped for Thyroid hormones??? Surely there are many people on this medication competing?

Sorry, rant over.

People really need to get a grip and look at the big picture.
 
Just to address the last bit. An athlete is allowed a TE ratio of 4-1. That is 4x the level of a normal healthy male. That seems like it should be enough. If you want to go around with 10x the level, you can, nobody is stopping you nor is it illegal. Just can't race.
Marijuana same thing. You just can't race on it.
 
RobbieCanuck said:
I am the leading edge of the Baby Boom, born in 1947. I enjoyed cycling from a distance until Greg LeMond won his TDF titles. Me and a lot of then 40 year olds got psyched and I bought my first road bike in 1987. But the bump in popularity in North American due to LeMond was modest.

It was the exploits of Armstrong, Hincapie, Hamilton, Andreu, Leipheimer, Vaughters, Landis, Danielson, Van de Velde, Zabriski and Livingston etal that inspired the cycling boom in North America. It was no longer only a European sport at the top, and bikes were flying off the shelves.

It was these guys, dopers all, who infused the boom, not only for Boomers but everyone. It was their celebrity that expedited the excitement. And in addition it was way cheaper than golf memberships, green fees or golf clubs.

However, these cheats also represent a crushing disappointment, a disastrous legacy and a pronounced betrayal, to we the gullible. There is no N.A. cyclist today who inspires cycling. It remains to be seen how that will affect it's popularity in North America.
I still think simple population age cohort pressure has probably been a bigger influence on the numbers, and I also predict that from here on the rate of growth in masters racing will slow, if not fall back, as the overall population ages further and there is no boomer follow up to back fill the masters ranks in the years ahead.

Overall participation in cycling related events (fondos, etc) will increase along with population in general, and this is where the growth is / will be.

 
Aug 10, 2010
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veganrob said:
Just to address the last bit. An athlete is allowed a TE ratio of 4-1. That is 4x the level of a normal healthy male. That seems like it should be enough. If you want to go around with 10x the level, you can, nobody is stopping you nor is it illegal. Just can't race.
Marijuana same thing. You just can't race on it.
Marijuana would be a PDD (Performance Detracting Drug), wouldn't it? Why ban it?
 
Jul 22, 2009
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MarkvW said:
Marijuana would be a PDD (Performance Detracting Drug), wouldn't it? Why ban it?
I'd prefer not to do a technical crit or mountain descent with a guy in the pack who was stoned.
 

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