Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

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Sep 12, 2017
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Nica and all, but I want him to win the Tour. His moment may have passed after 2018. Remains to be seen if he can come back at 17 18 level. And there are new contenders now.
 
Dumoulin fan here. Dumoulin has got a self-defeating mindset here. Publicly saying he does not feel strong, sacrificing his chances... for what?!? Publicly saying he's not going to win the Tour and he's going to ride for Roglic from now on...
Dutch bluntness is not helping him here, and he does not believe in himself. Bernal shows how it's supposed to be done, hasn't been looking strong as well, but is not commenting on this and silently following wheels, waiting for the day he feels strong again. Tom can't play the poker game needed for three weeks Tour and has thrown his cards out of the window. He has beaten himself.
Oh stop. When Tom or anyone else says they don't feel good it's lack of belief and self doubt but when it's Ineos its all mind games and shadow boxing.

Christ even when Ineos drop time it's made out to be some master tactics from Dave
 
I do believe Dumoulin when he feels he isnt good enough to win this Tour.
You could see he was clearly suffering when Van Aert was riding already.

However, he didn't need to blow up the peloton, isolating every leader and then making it uncontrollable. He'd be better off either:
a) taking a calmer pace at the front until someone attacks
b) just stay in the group as long as possible, limit the damage and hope for a better day. That way he could've given Jumbo more options later on in the Tour.

So it wasn't a smart move.
The question whether he can back to 2018 level is a bit harsch. This is his 3rd race after a 1 year absence. He's not miles off. Like George Bennett says, he only needs 1/2 good stages to regain some confidence in himself.
 
I do believe Dumoulin when he feels he isnt good enough to win this Tour.
You could see he was clearly suffering when Van Aert was riding already.

However, he didn't need to blow up the peloton, isolating every leader and then making it uncontrollable. He'd be better off either:
a) taking a calmer pace at the front until someone attacks
b) just stay in the group as long as possible, limit the damage and hope for a better day. That way he could've given Jumbo more options later on in the Tour.
Even before that.
The moment he realized he was suffering he should've told his team: "tell Wout to slow down a bit and let's see if anybody else is willing to work".

And my bet is nobody else would have worked.
 
I honestly understand neither Dumoulin nor Jumbo.

Jumbo wanted to ride passive and follow attacks, then why did they let Van Aert drill Port de Bales? Now as for Dumoulin, if it there were no team orders, it made no sense to do what he did. His motivation did make sense, but his tactics didn't. And he's smart enough to know that. So to me I think he's really feeling the pressure, most of which he puts on himself.
 
Even before that.
The moment he realized he was suffering he should've told his team: "tell Wout to slow down a bit and let's see if anybody else is willing to work".

And my bet is nobody else would have worked.
I guess this is the predicament you get in, when you start with two leaders. Roglic might have been telling them the opposite. "Keep the pace up. Im feeling good".

I think they so far been playing a lot of games from the car. They are all over the place. Like yesterday they were riding to make it really hard, but then some of their riders cracked. Kuss and Tom. Or was Kuss being told to drop and take it easy? Because Van Aert were going so good, and they still had Bennett left? With Tom and Roglic. Then Roglic being told to ride defensively, since he echoed those sentiments that he could have followed Pog but didnt. They dont want the jersey right now. Was the goal just to tire everyone out but not attack and gain time? I feel like it could blow up in their face.

Van Aert also has a free role with domestic duties it seems like. He seems to be strong enough, that he can pull it off. But even he might run out steam later in the race. He went into this race on great form. He might mellow out as the race goes on, and he has never completed a GT. This is his second time around, tbf. Even though he seems strong enough that he wont fade, it is unknown how he responds to weeks of racing.
 
We'll see about Kuss today, but IMO it's a little ballsy to let him drop halfway Port de Bales instead of at least the bottom of the Peyresourde.

Hell if Kuss is on a great day then pacing Dumoulin is practically a chill day
 
No, there was no different set of circumstances. Favorites would be able to cope in the same way, on the stage 6. Hence letting others work was a good strategy. On stage 8, if Dumoulin wouldn't step up, JV would not deliver. Now if Roglič was smart, for not going all in and potentially blowing up (today), or not, we i guess will find out that rather soonish.
 
Dumoulin realised he isn't strong enough to win it all and JV protecting him is killing Roglič chance for the win since they had to ride defending, not attacking.

Now it's clear what they need to do and stage 9 was already much better. If Tom get even better, he can be a great help. And i believe he got himself a fan in Roglič and will get dom duties back from him.
 
now Tom can go with some guys in attack and protect the jersey and putting guys like Bernal and Quintana in doubt, chase him or not, Roglic being "in a chair"...
I very much doubt it will happen. But at least he's close enough that he could be in the random carnage breakaway and get back into contention if he finds his form for the Alps, especially with the ITT still coming.
 
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I very much doubt it will happen. But at least he's close enough that he could be in the random carnage breakaway and get back into contention if he finds his form for the Alps, especially with the ITT still coming.
I don't think he wants that, he just wants to pace for Roglic now. He never believed in multiple team leaders.
 
He still has a shot at a top5 if he improves. Hell even a podium wouldn't be impossible, when riders start having bad days in the third week.
But Bennett-Kuss being a lot less reliable than I was expecting will make achieving a good result harder. He might be forced to work if Pogacar keeps attacking like crazy.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in the break in stage 12/13, just to check if other teams can control it, but this doesn't look a very Jumbo way to race.
 
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He still has a shot at a top5 if he improves. Hell even a podium wouldn't be impossible, when riders start having bad days in the third week.
But Bennett-Kuss being a lot less reliable than I was expecting will make achieving a good result harder. He might be forced to work if Pogacar keeps attacking like crazy.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in the break in stage 12/13, just to check if other teams can control it, but this doesn't look a very Jumbo way to race.
Yeah Bennett and Kuss have been underwhelming and it begs the question if they're still recovering from crashes or were just too hot too early in the season.

Don't see Dumo in breaks next week. Echelons might change a lot but I expect Jumbo to ride boring.

If Dumoulin is top 10 uphill by Pas de Peyrol he's looking good for the Alps.
 
I still expect a better Dumoulin in week 3 especially. Considering his history the last year. So that would be awesome help especially if ppl think Roglic will fade. He'd have an easier time with Dumoulin setting the pace.

Also a positive thing is that, even when he didn't felt good and did a short extreme pull, it was clear others were suffering. Even Bernal said the pace Dumoulin set on stage 8 was extremely hard.. So if he gets better and can do it a bit longer it will be good for Roglic. I can even see Dumoulin still finishing top 10 in the end with a good 3rd week and the time trial.
 
Reactions: Red Rick
I still expect a better Dumoulin in week 3 especially. Considering his history the last year. So that would be awesome help especially if ppl think Roglic will fade. He'd have an easier time with Dumoulin setting the pace.

Also a positive thing is that, even when he didn't felt good and did a short extreme pull, it was clear others were suffering. Even Bernal said the pace Dumoulin set on stage 8 was extremely hard.. So if he gets better and can do it a bit longer it will be good for Roglic. I can even see Dumoulin still finishing top 10 in the end with a good 3rd week and the time trial.
It could also be that the lack of racing comes to bite him in the bum and he fades in the 3rd week, but let's hope he doesn't.

By the way do you know if Dumoulin/Jumbo has said anything about potentially doing La Vuelta?
 
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I still expect a better Dumoulin in week 3 especially. Considering his history the last year. So that would be awesome help especially if ppl think Roglic will fade. He'd have an easier time with Dumoulin setting the pace.

Also a positive thing is that, even when he didn't felt good and did a short extreme pull, it was clear others were suffering. Even Bernal said the pace Dumoulin set on stage 8 was extremely hard.. So if he gets better and can do it a bit longer it will be good for Roglic. I can even see Dumoulin still finishing top 10 in the end with a good 3rd week and the time trial.
I honestly would have liked him to drop the heroics two days ago and just try and follow. He could still have been in the top 10 now, and if he'd improve in the third week, he'd still be in it for the overall. Now the only thing he's really done is shot himself in the foot. The one good thing is, now maybe he'll get a bit more leeway should there be a scenario where a small elite group and he attacks from halfway the climb. A bit like Pogacar two days ago.
 

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