Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Rollthedice]

I didn't see the Pinot/Ala stage, so I didn't know he crashed. Sounds like a Thomas thing to do.

I agree he lost that race in the Pyrenees, and if anything I think him not beating Alaphilippe in that time trial was already a bit of a show of weaker form.

Here it is. Not his fault though, Woods crashed in front of the train.

 

[tobydawq]

Here it is. Not his fault though, Woods crashed in front of the train.

No, no, it's a Thomas thing to do. Don't come here with facts...

 

[Leinster]

I think Bernal was a much bigger favorite than Thomas to win last year. 2018 Tour, I don't think Froome was really a favorite to win the double. It maybe a bit of captain hindsighting, but Thomas suddenly being the next in line seemed more in line with Sky than Froome pulling a double that hadn't happened for 20 years all of a sudden. Also both Thomas and Bernal didn't really benefit tactically, they were just the best dudes in the race when it mattered most.

And for Carapaz, true. He really benefitted tactically. Without Landa it probably becomes a lot harder to win that race, and I think Nibali screwed himself like 3 times that race, as well as potentially being screwed by Gavia cancellation

Like all generalizations, mine has its flaws. The point is more about G and Froome both being on the Tour podium, Carapaz and Landa finishing 1 and 4, and Bernal and Thomas finishing 1-2. It makes tactical sense for Numbo to keep them both up there on gc for as long as possible, so they can trade attacks etc. rather than trying to burn off Dumoulin, which is what Sky have always donee with their 2nd best climber until 2018.

 

[Big Doopie]

If there is a silver lining to the announcement that K will not be riding, it is that Dumoulin is less likely to have to sacrifice himself, at least early on. My hope is that he gets to ride for GC.

 

[Cinemaniak]

If there is a silver lining to the announcement that K will not be riding, it is that Dumoulin is less likely to have to sacrifice himself, at least early on. My hope is that he gets to ride for GC.

In what way are things changing for him?

 

[Leinster]

In what way are things changing for him?

He's 1 of 2 leaders with 6 domestiques, instead of 3+5? It's a slight change, but it's a change.

 

[Big Doopie]

He's 1 of 2 leaders with 6 domestiques, instead of 3+5? It's a slight change, but it's a change.

exactly.

tho, imo, it is quite a considerable change. not sure tom will be required to be part of the jumbo train as he was at Ain and even Dauphine. unless roglic is in yellow and has made a difference. at which point, despite my hoping for a dumo (or pinot win), my point becomes moot.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

On the other hand, K was likely to be there at the end of a tough mountain stage but also likely to be weaker than Dumo, so there was one more capable person between Dumo and work. I think Kuss will be there but say he sets temp until Bernal attacks with 2k to go and Kuss doesn't have the legs to go after him? That might have fallen on K before, now it will likely fall on Dumo, right?

 

[Red Rick]

If it's really close to the finish I can see Roglic just doing it himself.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I hope he doesn't lose time early on, and gets put on watch duty. I think if he can stay close in GC, they won't let him do some "domestique work". And i can certainly see a scenario unfold, where he is improving towards the third week and the best Jumbo by that time. Not saying Roglic will "crack" or anything, but it seems Tom has been building up nicely so far.

I have no issues with Roglic, but Dumoulin & Pinot are the ones i'd rather see in yellow come Paris.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I hope he doesn't lose time early on, and gets put on watch duty. I think if he can stay close in GC, they won't let him do some "domestique work". And i can certainly see a scenario unfold, where he is improving towards the third week and the best Jumbo by that time. Not saying Roglic will "crack" or anything, but it seems Tom has been building up nicely so far.

I have no issues with Roglic, but Dumoulin & Pinot are the ones i'd rather see in yellow come Paris.

Tbf, pretty much everyone who isn't a French-hating psychopath from Texas is cheering for Pinot, I still have to find cycling fans who don't like him. He has become one of the most liked cyclists over the last few years.

 

[Red Rick]

Tbf, pretty much everyone who isn't a French-hating psychopath from Texas is cheering for Pinot, I still have to find cycling fans who don't like him. He has become one of the most liked cyclists over the last few years.

Nah I have studied the family trees dating back centuries, Pinot is the least Anglo Saxon rider in the peloton

 

[jaylew]

Tbf, pretty much everyone who isn't a French-hating psychopath from Texas is cheering for Pinot, I still have to find cycling fans who don't like him. He has become one of the most liked cyclists over the last few years.

Pinot would probably be one of my last choices for winner. Not a French-hater as I like Bardet and Alaphilippe and would like to see one of them win (I also usually cheer for France in the WC) but Pinot is not my cup of tea. I am from Texas though!

 

[Leinster]

On the other hand, K was likely to be there at the end of a tough mountain stage but also likely to be weaker than Dumo, so there was one more capable person between Dumo and work. I think Kuss will be there but say he sets temp until Bernal attacks with 2k to go and Kuss doesn't have the legs to go after him? That might have fallen on K before, now it will likely fall on Dumo, right?

Anything that happens in the final 5km, a GC leader worth his salt needs to be able to shut down himself. If Dumoulin close it with Roglic on his wheel, or vice versa, the result is the same, and if either of them can't hold the wheel a decision is made.

Tbf, pretty much everyone who isn't a French-hating psychopath from Texas is cheering for Pinot, I still have to find cycling fans who don't like him. He has become one of the most liked cyclists over the last few years.

I think he's been through so much in so many races, and kept coming back, that people can't help wanting him to do well. And that will continue unless/until he wins 3 Tours in a row, at which point it'll be "enough, let somebody else have a go."

 

[Red Rick]

There's also just no stages before the Alps where I even anticipate Dumoulin being that necessary as a domestique.

 

[Red Rick]

This may be a bit of a random question, but has Dumoulin made any comments about the TT equipment at Jumbo?

 

[Lequack]

He actually looked pretty strong today, almost the Tom of old. I don't think he should be too hard on himself.

Tom Dumoulin: I want to be better than this at the Tour de France

Dutchman places 11th at Orcières-Merlette in same time as Roglic

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[webvan]

Not that strong (dropped at one point), was of ZERO use to his team and then complained about his performance...this isn't going to end well I'm afraid.

 

[Bardamu]

Why should he be of use to the team?

 

[savornin]

As a Dutchman I am really really rooting for Tom. At the same time, I would be surprised if he wins this year. Or if he ever will win. Tom was world class in 17 and 18, since then Froome and Thomas have fallen away but Bernal and Roglic have risen and riders like Pogacar and Evenepoel are on their way. Also, the diminishing of ITT's in the Tour in order to help the French riders is a disadvantage for ITT specialist Tom.

Taking into account that Tom is coming back from a long period of inactivity, yesterday wasn't bad, these short climbs do not pander to his strengths. All in all, it remains to be seen whether Tom will be back at his 17 and 18 level, this Tour or ever.

 

[Red Rick]

As a Dutchman I am really really rooting for Tom. At the same time, I would be surprised if he wins this year. Or if he ever will win. Tom was world class in 17 and 18, since then Froome and Thomas have fallen away but Bernal and Roglic have risen and riders like Pogacar and Evenepoel are on their way. Also, the diminishing of ITT's in the Tour in order to help the French riders is a disadvantage for ITT specialist Tom.

Taking into account that Tom is coming back from a long period of inactivity, yesterday wasn't bad, these short climbs do not pander to his strengths. All in all, it remains to be seen whether Tom will be back at his 17 and 18 level, this Tour or ever.

Yeah. I would be surprised if Dumoulin won too, but I think people are way overreacting to his ride yesterday. A bunch of dudes got gapped yesterday for a little bit, and he didn't lose time.

Going by his interview, he clearly expected to be better yesterday. That can happen. But it doesn't mean it's all downhill from here, which a lot of people seem to think that it does. Also nothing wrong with saying that. Dumoulin is always straightforward and quite frank in his interviews, and this was much more a bit of honesty than complaining.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Why should he be of use to the team?

Wasn't necessary yesterday, but they really only have Van Aert and Kuss as reliable mountain doms at this point. That can change, of course, but it may not. Those two guys can't keep doing 99% of the work, as great as they are. And they are ****ing great.

If Dumo is part of the train Roglic, Van Aert and Kuss don't have to spend as much energy. They're going FTW, after all. Rogla is their only shot IMO and the current fav.

(There's no rush if Lusette and Marie-Blanque will be soft pedalled, of course)

 

[Bardamu]

Current fav yeah, but only shot? Dumoulin remains one of the best third week riders with a great TT. Plus these kind of finishes are made for Roglic.

 

[webvan]

Point is he'll have to start working (like Froome in 2012, like Thomas in 2018, etc...) when he has to if not things are going to go downhill quickly for him and for the team. Right now it seems he's in theframe of mind "I helped Roglic at the Dauphine (didn't hurt to get some fitness back too) so I'm not doing that on the Tour".

 

[Lequack]

Well as long as he's on the same time as the leaders I don't think he has to work, as he's still considered option B.