Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

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Rechtschreibfehler said:
"They are only focusing on me and trying to make me lose instead of trying to win. In the last moments, they lost a lot of time to the other competitors. I really hope that riding like this they will lose their podium spot in Milan, that would be really nice, and I would be really happy,"

I honestly don't understand how this is not a legitimate opinion. He doesn't say that he expected them to work with oder for him, merely that he thinks riding like this doesn't deserve a podium spot. That's an opinion not an insult. And it's not arrogant it's just plain honest.

Oh and apparently later in the press conference he said this:

"I was never really in trouble but in the finale, I was not completely happy with the situation. I'd have liked to stay all together. At top of the climb with four kilometres to go, it was a good situation for Quintana, Nibali and me. That's why I didn't understand their tactics. I was frustrated and angry that they only rode on my wheel. I don't understand them."

Still I don't see how it's not legitimate to make a statement on a matter of disagreement.
You don't understand? He was speaking like he already won the damn Giro. That is arrogance. It was his responsibility to chase down every threat. For Nairo and Nibs he is the biggest threat not some Mollema or Zakarin and they rode like that. Furthermore it's not his business to patronize two racers who have among them six GTs and other podiums. A bit of respect would not harm him. It's gotten to his head.
 
Rollthedice said:
Rechtschreibfehler said:
"They are only focusing on me and trying to make me lose instead of trying to win. In the last moments, they lost a lot of time to the other competitors. I really hope that riding like this they will lose their podium spot in Milan, that would be really nice, and I would be really happy,"

I honestly don't understand how this is not a legitimate opinion. He doesn't say that he expected them to work with oder for him, merely that he thinks riding like this doesn't deserve a podium spot. That's an opinion not an insult. And it's not arrogant it's just plain honest.

Oh and apparently later in the press conference he said this:

"I was never really in trouble but in the finale, I was not completely happy with the situation. I'd have liked to stay all together. At top of the climb with four kilometres to go, it was a good situation for Quintana, Nibali and me. That's why I didn't understand their tactics. I was frustrated and angry that they only rode on my wheel. I don't understand them."

Still I don't see how it's not legitimate to make a statement on a matter of disagreement.
You don't understand? He was speaking like he already won the damn Giro. That is arrogance. It was his responsibility to chase down every threat. For Nairo and Nibs he is the biggest threat not some Mollema or Zakarin and they rode like that. Furthermore it's not his business to patronize two racers who have among them six GTs and other podiums. A bit of respect would not harm him. It's gotten to his head.
He was not speaking as if he had already won the Giro, he was very, very clear in his words after the race that there is still much to play for and that a single bad day could destroy his chance. As for "showing some respect" he has been relentlessly respectful of his opponents throughout the race, yet the first time he raises some entirely reasonable and rather mild criticism of his chief opponents some of their fans start whining as if he accused them of molesting goats.

It is not the leader's sole responsibility to chase down riders who are more significant threats to others than they are to him. Nibali and Quintana were bluffing him, he thought they were being silly. Both are entitled to that attitude.
 
Rollthedice said:
Rechtschreibfehler said:
"They are only focusing on me and trying to make me lose instead of trying to win. In the last moments, they lost a lot of time to the other competitors. I really hope that riding like this they will lose their podium spot in Milan, that would be really nice, and I would be really happy,"

I honestly don't understand how this is not a legitimate opinion. He doesn't say that he expected them to work with oder for him, merely that he thinks riding like this doesn't deserve a podium spot. That's an opinion not an insult. And it's not arrogant it's just plain honest.

Oh and apparently later in the press conference he said this:

"I was never really in trouble but in the finale, I was not completely happy with the situation. I'd have liked to stay all together. At top of the climb with four kilometres to go, it was a good situation for Quintana, Nibali and me. That's why I didn't understand their tactics. I was frustrated and angry that they only rode on my wheel. I don't understand them."

Still I don't see how it's not legitimate to make a statement on a matter of disagreement.
You don't understand? He was speaking like he already won the damn Giro. That is arrogance. It was his responsibility to chase down every threat. For Nairo and Nibs he is the biggest threat not some Mollema or Zakarin and they rode like that. Furthermore it's not his business to patronize two racers who have among them six GTs and other podiums. A bit of respect would not harm him. It's gotten to his head.

"There are still two mountains and a time trial, so we're still a long way from Milan," Dumoulin warned.

"I lost it all on the last big day at the Vuelta in 2015 and so I know that you can lose a lot on a bad day. I was strong today but maybe not tomorrow. I believe in myself but I have doubts also. I'm just trying to look at things from a positive side. It's been good so far…"
Last part of Dumoulin's answer.


Dumoulin doesn't have to chase every thread, since he has an edge over anyone else: an ITT. And physical strength (so far).

Dumoulin, without a team, needs to control the race and keep his coolness. Which he did.

And I don't see where he was patronizing anyone. He was only saying that he didn't understand their tactics today (neither did I). Especially Nibali's, who hasn't shown anything special so far. Anything worth of Giro's win, even considering the incident Dumoulin had 2 days ago, which made him loose 2 minutes.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Rollthedice said:
You don't understand? He was speaking like he already won the damn Giro. That is arrogance. It was his responsibility to chase down every threat. For Nairo and Nibs he is the biggest threat not some Mollema or Zakarin and they rode like that. Furthermore it's not his business to patronize two racers who have among them six GTs and other podiums. A bit of respect would not harm him. It's gotten to his head.
Yeah but he did chase down the threats which to him are Nibali and Quintana. And he also didn't sit up but rode them to the finish. He never with a word said that he thought he had it in the bag. He specifically referred to their style of riding, not that he thought he was already on the podium. But bar cracking or something very strange happening, Zakarin and Pinot simply were not real threats yet to waste all your energy on. He controlled the gap after Nibali and Quintana decided not to want to help chase ,and not to want to win the stage as well btw!

Still, the question remains unanswererd why it's wrong to state a matter of disagreement?
 
In today's world, guys like McEnroe, who share their opinion without fearing being considered idiots or whatever are rare. Today it's almost a crime to say what one thinks. So many social filters.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Star athletes tend to cultivate a certain public image because that's what the sponsors want. It's about money.
 
Sep 2, 2015
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I do share the Nibb's opinion this time, I like Tom but he is been cocky, he looks like a nice and honest man, but obviously Quintana and Nibali want to make him lose, they want to break him physically and most important mentally, and they don't care about some Zakarin attacking, matter of fact it plays in his favor that Dumoulin has to worry about more riders than just the both of them, so Doumoulin desiring to two of the better riders of his generation lose their podium spots sounds like he is assuming that he got his spot granted.
 
Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Which is why Froome should also race for a team like Sunweb. Weak team, strong rider.
I agree entirely. I always prefer the best riders to have weaker teams than their opponents. Unfortunately basic economic dictate that the best leaders and the best support riders gravitate towards the same teams.

It will be very interesting to see what Dumoulin actually does about his team situation. If Kelderman had stayed upright, Sunweb would have provided him with an adequate team for an unproven Giro dark horse. But even if he gets struck by lightning tomorrow and fails to finish, he is now going to be in a position to demand both the big bucks and serious Tour contender level support. Is he under contract next year? Will Sunweb pony up the money to keep and support him?
 
Jun 27, 2015
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Rechtschreibfehler said:
"They are only focusing on me and trying to make me lose instead of trying to win. In the last moments, they lost a lot of time to the other competitors. I really hope that riding like this they will lose their podium spot in Milan, that would be really nice, and I would be really happy,"

I honestly don't understand how this is not a legitimate opinion. He doesn't say that he expected them to work with oder for him, merely that he thinks riding like this doesn't deserve a podium spot. That's an opinion not an insult. And it's not arrogant it's just plain honest (in a polemic way, but that's a commonly known stylistic device of exaggeration)

Oh and apparently later in the press conference he said this:

"I was never really in trouble but in the finale, I was not completely happy with the situation. I'd have liked to stay all together. At top of the climb with four kilometres to go, it was a good situation for Quintana, Nibali and me. That's why I didn't understand their tactics. I was frustrated and angry that they only rode on my wheel. I don't understand them."

Still I don't see how it's not legitimate to make a statement on a matter of disagreement.
sorry but you can't launch such an instigation and don't expect verbal retaliation from the professionals you're implying in your statement without their consent. Nibali had to defend his image
Nibali was quite calm when he finished the race. The words he profused were not generated out of nothing,but only as a response to Dumoulin.
In alternative: If dumoulin's words don't deserve criticism,it follows that neither the answer does because Nibali couldn't know the exact intentions of Dumoulin

I know there's some kind of bias towards Nibali (given he's not the most friendly rider in the peloton) but Dumoulin certainly enjoys a status of "virgin" which,for many people, somehow doesn't allow him to say bad things and to be arrogant, it seems,judging from the majority of the comments I've read in the Nibali's thread and here
 
46&twoWheels said:
Rechtschreibfehler said:
"They are only focusing on me and trying to make me lose instead of trying to win. In the last moments, they lost a lot of time to the other competitors. I really hope that riding like this they will lose their podium spot in Milan, that would be really nice, and I would be really happy,"

I honestly don't understand how this is not a legitimate opinion. He doesn't say that he expected them to work with oder for him, merely that he thinks riding like this doesn't deserve a podium spot. That's an opinion not an insult. And it's not arrogant it's just plain honest (in a polemic way, but that's a commonly known stylistic device of exaggeration)

Oh and apparently later in the press conference he said this:

"I was never really in trouble but in the finale, I was not completely happy with the situation. I'd have liked to stay all together. At top of the climb with four kilometres to go, it was a good situation for Quintana, Nibali and me. That's why I didn't understand their tactics. I was frustrated and angry that they only rode on my wheel. I don't understand them."

Still I don't see how it's not legitimate to make a statement on a matter of disagreement.
sorry but you can't launch such an instigation and don't expect verbal retaliation from the professionals you're implying in your statement without their consent. Nibali had to defend his image
Nibali was quite calm when he finished the race. The words he profused were not generated out of nothing,but only as a response to Dumoulin.
In alternative: If dumoulin's words don't deserve criticism,it follows that neither the answer does because Nibali couldn't know the exact intentions of Dumoulin

I know there's some kind of bias towards Nibali (given he's not the most friendly rider in the peloton) but Dumoulin certainly enjoys a status of "virgin" which,for many people, somehow doesn't allow him to say bad things and to be arrogant, it seems,judging from the majority of the comments I've read in the Nibali's thread and here
You have it right in the middle part: neither Dumoulin's words nor Nibali's words deserve criticism. Dumoulin's words were fair comment from his position and not particularly harsh. Nibali's response was also a fair comment from his position and not particularly harsh.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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46&twoWheels said:
Rechtschreibfehler said:
"They are only focusing on me and trying to make me lose instead of trying to win. In the last moments, they lost a lot of time to the other competitors. I really hope that riding like this they will lose their podium spot in Milan, that would be really nice, and I would be really happy,"

I honestly don't understand how this is not a legitimate opinion. He doesn't say that he expected them to work with oder for him, merely that he thinks riding like this doesn't deserve a podium spot. That's an opinion not an insult. And it's not arrogant it's just plain honest (in a polemic way, but that's a commonly known stylistic device of exaggeration)

Oh and apparently later in the press conference he said this:

"I was never really in trouble but in the finale, I was not completely happy with the situation. I'd have liked to stay all together. At top of the climb with four kilometres to go, it was a good situation for Quintana, Nibali and me. That's why I didn't understand their tactics. I was frustrated and angry that they only rode on my wheel. I don't understand them."

Still I don't see how it's not legitimate to make a statement on a matter of disagreement.
sorry but you can't launch such an instigation and don't expect verbal retaliation from the professionals you're implying in your statement without their consent. Nibali had to defend his image
Nibali was quite calm when he finished the race. The words he profused were not generated out of nothing,but only as a response to Dumoulin.
In alternative: If dumoulin's words don't deserve criticism,it follows that neither the answer does because Nibali couldn't know the exact intentions of Dumoulin

I know there's some kind of bias towards Nibali (given he's not the most friendly rider in the peloton) but Dumoulin certainly enjoys a status of "virgin" which,for many people, somehow doesn't allow him to say bad things and to be arrogant, it seems,judging from the majority of the comments I've read in the Nibali's thread and here
Well I wasn't talking about Nibali here at all. What I was talking about was if his opinion was a legitimate one or not. Completly different topic.

About Nibalis reaction. Of course he can critizise Dumoulins opinion, and of course we don't know if stuff got lost in translation in both directions. I've said so in the Nibali thread btw. But you can't honestly be serious that Dumoulin should have asked for their consent to make a critical statement.
 
I agree with Dumourain and lenric (I mean it ;) ): all he had to do was control his two closest rivals. He did it. It was up to Nibali and Quintana to defend their podium spot. If they care about a podium spot, which they probably don't. Between Quintana sprinting for a time bonus after TD waited for him and Nibali/Zakarin not waiting, there's pay back. First he caught Zakarin's first attack, then let the gap to Pinot/Pozzo go to a minute. FDJ has been nice to him. If he can help Pinot stick it to them, he will.

I don't like too much talking: he hasn't won yet. BM Tom is playing into NIbali's hands. Nibali talks too much...feud and make-up with Fabio, the letter, the "I don't expect anyone to wait for me", blah, blah, blah. I listed Vicenzo in my favorite riders in the thread last month. But come on Vinnie: less talking and more pedalling...

Dumoulin will learn from it: even if you speak the truth, the things that you say can come across in negative light. Then instead of the new Indurain, people think of you as the new Armstrong. Not good.

AFAIC, Quintana was arrogant too, showing up not at 100% and expecting to win. Like he's soooo much better than everyone else.

Let your riding speak for you Tom.

And enjoy the pink in Milan.
 
Mar 27, 2010
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I really don't get why people get so upset by what Dumoulin said. Nibali pretty much admitted he's purposefully risking his podium to win the Giro as he doesn't care about the podium. Obviously that's to the disadvantage of Dumoulin, but completely correct and acceptable, so obviously Dumoulin wants it to backfire. I really don't see how either side here is in the wrong. They're both riding the way they should and hoping to come out on top.
 
Re:

Ramira said:
I really don't get why people get so upset by what Dumoulin said. Nibali pretty much admitted he's purposefully risking his podium to win the Giro as he doesn't care about the podium. Obviously that's to the disadvantage of Dumoulin, but completely correct and acceptable, so obviously Dumoulin wants it to backfire. I really don't see how either side here is in the wrong. They're both riding the way they should and hoping to come out on top.
Exactly. Too much talking. And depending on allegiance, you can slice and dice it whichever way you want: Dumoulin said this, Quintana did that, Vincenzo is this. OK. To me, the bottom line is that Dumourain had a great day, didn't lose a second, his opponents are running out of opportunities. They can talk all they want, he can talk all he wants, and we can post whatever we post: but at the end of the day, there're two mountain stages left and one ITT. He s(h)its atop the standings and it's looking good (I don't know how it smells tho' :D ). A lot of things can happen, but I'd rather be in his position tonight than in Nairo's, Vinnie's, Tibopino's, Zak's, or Pozzo's. Tom Dumoulin is about to accomplish something huge. That's what's going on. Now let's enjoy the ride.
 
Rechtschreibfehler said:
"They are only focusing on me and trying to make me lose instead of trying to win. In the last moments, they lost a lot of time to the other competitors. I really hope that riding like this they will lose their podium spot in Milan, that would be really nice, and I would be really happy,"

"I was never really in trouble but in the finale, I was not completely happy with the situation. I'd have liked to stay all together. At top of the climb with four kilometres to go, it was a good situation for Quintana, Nibali and me. That's why I didn't understand their tactics. I was frustrated and angry that they only rode on my wheel. I don't understand them."
If that upsets him maybe he shouldn't shouldn't show such strength! Nairo and Nibali couldn't get rid of him and then he put them under pressure with his attacks so of course they have to resort to plan B. Why would they do what he wants them to do? Anything Dumo wants to happen on the road is likely not going to work to their advantage. They don't care about about Pinot, Zaka, and Pozzo. He's the one they're trying to beat. Dumo has been incredibly strong and there's another TT coming. At this point they're in desperation mode and have to try other tactics. They're not going to work with him for a solitary second to distance, or reduce a gap to, those other guys as long as they think there's any shot of winning.

I don't think he was being arrogant, just a little spiteful but that kind of thing can happen in the heat of the battle and right after a race - your emotions are running high. I'm sure upon reflection he probably realizes he was being a little silly. Nibs and Nairo have no obligation to chase those guys just as he doesn't. Just race your race and let them race theirs.
 
Tonton said:
I agree with Dumourain and lenric (I mean it ;) ): all he had to do was control his two closest rivals. He did it. It was up to Nibali and Quintana to defend their podium spot. If they care about a podium spot, which they probably don't. Between Quintana sprinting for a time bonus after TD waited for him and Nibali/Zakarin not waiting, there's pay back. First he caught Zakarin's first attack, then let the gap to Pinot/Pozzo go to a minute. FDJ has been nice to him. If he can help Pinot stick it to them, he will.
C'mon, you don't actually believe Dumo cares about that, do you? So, Nairo's supposed to think, "Dumo waited (even though we didn't need him to), so I should soft peddle the sprint and be careful not to get any bonus seconds, (unless Tom also gets some) despite the fact I'm getting my butt kicked at the moment"

Even if someone waits, once the race is back on, the race is back on.
 
It's quite funny how Dumoulin seems to be getting in Nibali's and Quintana's heads. Movistar are already admitting that Quintana wasn't attempting the double ! Nibali's performance so far was about what I expected but Quintana has shocked me with his performance. To me he seemed to give up quite easily yesterday. I think it's about time that cycling discussed a salary cap. Yes it's not perfect and smart teams can still dominate as has been seen in other sports but I think it would be good especially for grand tours. Movistar so far have been the strongest team but their tactics and performance for the most part have been ineffective. They are nowhere near as good as the Astana team from a few seasons ago. If they had put Valverde in the race in the form he has been in with Quintana that would have made it much tougher for Dumoulin. But obviously they expected Quintana to ride away from everyone in the mountains especially in the final week. Anyway Nibali and Quintana have two more stages to turn it around and I'm not convinced they will. And Pinot is not out of podium contention either.
 

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