Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

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Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
He's hoping Pinot and Zakarin, not awful time trialists, overhaul Q/Nibs in the TT. Obviously. That's also what he said on dutch tv
So he wishes them lack of performance, just as I said. And he didnt cool off... but he is a man of a word, on the positive side :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re:

Martin said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
He's hoping Pinot and Zakarin, not awful time trialists, overhaul Q/Nibs in the TT. Obviously. That's also what he said on dutch tv
So he wishes them lack of performance, just as I said. And he didnt cool off... but he is a man of a word, on the positive side :rolleyes:
Again, no, there is nowhere in that statement that he says he want's them to lack performance. At his best Zakarin should put time into both of them and Pinot should be close to doing it to Nibali and definitely put time into Quintana. If they both take time over the next two days because Quintana and Nibali watch TD then it's a possible scenario.

TD may want to see them underperform but he hasn't said that, you are inferring it.
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Martin said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
He's hoping Pinot and Zakarin, not awful time trialists, overhaul Q/Nibs in the TT. Obviously. That's also what he said on dutch tv
So he wishes them lack of performance, just as I said. And he didnt cool off... but he is a man of a word, on the positive side :rolleyes:
Again, no, there is nowhere in that statement that he says he want's them to lack performance. At his best Zakarin should put time into both of them and Pinot should be close to doing it to Nibali and definitely put time into Quintana. If they both take time over the next two days because Quintana and Nibali watch TD then it's a possible scenario.

TD may want to see them underperform but he hasn't said that, you are inferring it.
He literally said that he wishes Quintana and Nibali to lose the podium.
 
Re: Re:

Climbing said:
King Boonen said:
Martin said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
He's hoping Pinot and Zakarin, not awful time trialists, overhaul Q/Nibs in the TT. Obviously. That's also what he said on dutch tv
So he wishes them lack of performance, just as I said. And he didnt cool off... but he is a man of a word, on the positive side :rolleyes:
Again, no, there is nowhere in that statement that he says he want's them to lack performance. At his best Zakarin should put time into both of them and Pinot should be close to doing it to Nibali and definitely put time into Quintana. If they both take time over the next two days because Quintana and Nibali watch TD then it's a possible scenario.

TD may want to see them underperform but he hasn't said that, you are inferring it.
He literally said that he wishes Quintana and Nibali to lose the podium.
Yes, he did. But he didn't say how and that's the point.
 
Re:

Climbing said:
Of course, but the point is that he can actually lose the Giro as well.
Not the smartest thing to say, but can happen to be angry immediately after an hard race.
He certainly can. This all stemmed from a poster saying he was wishing problems on Nibali and Quintana which I disagreed with as he never said that.

He has two hard days left and the ITT isn't a given at all.
 
Re:

Climbing said:
Of course, but the point is that he can actually lose the Giro as well.
Not the smartest thing to say, but can happen to be angry immediately after an hard race.
Well yes, it is a first time we saw him pissed off because of oponents racing strategy. Sagan is used to it. He is pissed off much more, when he is seen in finish and off record, but when confronted by media he says something like kwiato owes me beer like in this years MSR finish. Probably his wife and PR manager in one person gave him lessons of proper manner. TD should take such lessons too :)
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Climbing said:
Of course, but the point is that he can actually lose the Giro as well.
Not the smartest thing to say, but can happen to be angry immediately after an hard race.
He certainly can. This all stemmed from a poster saying he was wishing problems on Nibali and Quintana which I disagreed with as he never said that.

He has two hard days left and the ITT isn't a given at all.
It is like Schroeders cat dilema. We all know what he said but because he didnt specify how he wishes to achieve it, we can only speculate because there is no evidence. But what comes first to your mind when you say you want someone to lose? How?
 
Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
Yeah Dumoulin went over to Nibali and Quintana this morning as he regrets his statements. Says he is always a bit 'on edge' just after a stage.
This is a bit better as I was surprised about his statements yesterday and didn't like them especially after him handling the poopgate really well.
 
Apr 3, 2016
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No, we know exactly what he meant. He hopes that they will be overtaken by weaker riders if they keep playing games instead of riding to thei ability and defending their GC standings instead of only trying to wear out TD. Of course, wearing him out is their only opportunity to win, but for TD it doesn't make sense that you would rather miss podium than not going for the win, but of course, seasoned champions don't care about second place. Each look out for their own interests. It's not like he's wishing bad legs or disease upon them...
 
SeriousSam said:
rhubroma said:
Tonton said:
I agree with Dumourain and lenric (I mean it ;) ): all he had to do was control his two closest rivals. He did it. It was up to Nibali and Quintana to defend their podium spot. If they care about a podium spot, which they probably don't. Between Quintana sprinting for a time bonus after TD waited for him and Nibali/Zakarin not waiting, there's pay back. First he caught Zakarin's first attack, then let the gap to Pinot/Pozzo go to a minute. FDJ has been nice to him. If he can help Pinot stick it to them, he will.

I don't like too much talking: he hasn't won yet. BM Tom is playing into NIbali's hands. Nibali talks too much...feud and make-up with Fabio, the letter, the "I don't expect anyone to wait for me", blah, blah, blah. I listed Vicenzo in my favorite riders in the thread last month. But come on Vinnie: less talking and more pedalling...

Dumoulin will learn from it: even if you speak the truth, the things that you say can come across in negative light. Then instead of the new Indurain, people think of you as the new Armstrong. Not good.

AFAIC, Quintana was arrogant too, showing up not at 100% and expecting to win. Like he's soooo much better than everyone else.

Let your riding speak for you Tom.

And enjoy the pink in Milan.
Whatever Dumoulin's objectives are are his alone. So he really can't expect to badger his rivals into escorting him to Milan to shake his hand. He'd do well to shut his trap and focus on his own race.

Nibali already said before the Bormio stage he's not working with Dumoulin, nor at this stage of his career does anything but a win in a GC count. Quintana wants the double, not 2nd place. It is consequently obvious they would not collaborate.

Whatever strategy Domoulin, or anyone else, thinks is best for them and the "podium" is irrelevant. At any rate, I was liking Dumoulin till he showed his cocky side. And he should save the talking of pink for Milan.

It's probably true that Nibali cares less about the podium than Quintana, who cares less about it than anyone else riding competing for GC in this Giro. But they do care, and their teams care as well.

I like Dumoulin showing his cocky side, if he has such a side, whilst there is still a chance he'll be exposed.

Nothing worse than those who morph into arseholes only when they are safe from repercussions. The winner's condescension.
Dumoulin's character morph though was as precocious as his as of not yet Giro win. Settle down, be clear headed, which doesn't mean hypocritically diplomatic, but lucidly tactful and decorous with one's words. Some thoughts are better said with the legs, not the mouth. For one thing, it's prudent. He will never know if or when in the future he might need to seek an alliance from those, or their teams, he has so brazenly trashed. For another hubris before the actual goods have been finally delivered makes one look like an a$$ if the goods come up short.

At any rate, had Dumoulin been less cocky he'd have realized that it wasn't Nibali's or Quintana's responsibility to chase down the other GC guys after they attacked, but his. The only imperative for Nibali and Quintana was to drop Dumoulin, not tow him back to the break. Apart form the little real value that 2nd and 3rd place has for the respective riders, even their teams will have embraced a strategy to go for the win, which means risking the podium. At this stage of the game, with such a tight GC, riding for the win signifies potentially sacrificing the podium and thus not working, as a mandate, with Dumoulin, whatever the cost. Apparently Nibali's and Quintana's teams, given their rider's palmarès, are willing to take that risk, which of course is none of Dumoulin's business.

And now he's made enemies. Not very intelligent, for someone whose supposed to be smart.
 
He didn't wish them ill in any way. He was just a bit frustrated by their actions, so he thought (and said), well, if you're going to play it that way, I hope it comes back to bite you and Pinot and Zakarin take your podium spots.
Yes, he said he hoped they lost their podium positions, no, he did not wish for them to suffer an accident, mechanical or a bad day. I don't think he implied that at all.
 
Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
It's not that dumoulin is a dumb guy either. He did gymnasium (highest level of high school education) and was always a smart guy. But if we get heated we all make dumb comments we might regret later.
Didn't do well enough to pass the numerus fixus for med school tho. I'm sure few Dutch people mind that now
 

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