Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

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Re: Re:

ice&fire said:
Pricey_sky said:
Interviews with plenty of riders this morning seemed to mainly side with Dumoulin rather than Nairo or Nibali over yesterday's drama.
That's because most of them have no clue about race tactics and ride for placings not wins. Blame on the team radios.
I'd still say there opinion carries more justification than those who've never ridden a race in their lives. Just like most who've played professional football have a better understanding of the game than armchair pundits, for example.

The pro riders can't all be wrong.

Valv.Piti said:
I can't understand it at all. We often criticise people for wanting to stay put in the GC, defend their own places, be conservative etc., but when they all race for the win, its also bad...

I think it was definitely unwise for him to speak out, the Giro isn't over and he should keep frustrations until Sunday.
Tonton said:
jaylew said:
Tonton said:
I agree with Dumourain and lenric (I mean it ;) ): all he had to do was control his two closest rivals. He did it. It was up to Nibali and Quintana to defend their podium spot. If they care about a podium spot, which they probably don't. Between Quintana sprinting for a time bonus after TD waited for him and Nibali/Zakarin not waiting, there's pay back. First he caught Zakarin's first attack, then let the gap to Pinot/Pozzo go to a minute. FDJ has been nice to him. If he can help Pinot stick it to them, he will.
C'mon, you don't actually believe Dumo cares about that, do you? So, Nairo's supposed to think, "Dumo waited (even though we didn't need him to), so I should soft peddle the sprint and be careful not to get any bonus seconds, (unless Tom also gets some) despite the fact I'm getting my butt kicked at the moment"

Even if someone waits, once the race is back on, the race is back on.
I do. And maybe Dumoulin did. I'm probably much older than you, but yes, it's a new era. The rule is obsolete, but for many European riders, it's one of the golden rules. Dumoulin waited for Quintana, like Ulrich waited for Lance, just to get punched in the mouth. New world, new era.

I'm wearing the pink jersey, you don't wait, you disrespect me, and the sport. I can imagine this line of thinking. The Dutch, and Belgians, are often old school. I respect that. But the rule is obsolete. It's all about winning. Things have changed: imagine a Poulidor thread these days: he'd be crucified, called a loser, get no respect. Maybe he should focus on one-week races Millennials, you win. I'm not sure it's a good thing...
So Quintana should have just stopped racing on that stage because Dumoulin slowed the peloton to wait for him? Tonton, come on now!! That is just ridiculous! The idea that Quinana racing to the line being seen as a sign of disrespect is bizarre to say the least.
Sciatic said:
It seems many posters here and in the previous race thread have created a false dichotomy. Because a rider like Nairo or Nibs is willing to risk their current position to win the overall does NOT mean they don't care about a podium spot.

Based on the visual evidence (I can't know how they're actually feeling physically), Nairo and Nibbles cannot beat Tom straight up. He's too strong. In most gameplaying, when you can't beat someone straight up, you need to bluff, stall, or otherwise rattle the stronger player. In this case, the only way they can give themselves a chance to win is to play chicken with Tom when one of the other riders like Zakarin or Tibo goes up the road. If they have the guts to wait as the gap goes out to 1 minute . .. 2 minutes ... or more, eventually Dumoulin will take up the chase himself. He will do that not because he's not mentally tough but rather because he has by far the most to lose. So at that point N &N get on his wheel while he powers up to, let's say, TiboPino. And assuming they can follow his wheel, Then they have given themselves a chance-- not only are they back up to the riders who could threaten their podium spots, but they also have a more fatigued pink jersey to ride against.

So "playing chicken" about who will chase attackers gives them a chance to win but does not necessary throw away their podium places. Of course it might fail,but that's the nature of risk taking. It seems like pretty basic game logic, so I'm not sure why many folks don't see it that way. Barring accidents/ unscheduled pit stops, it may be their only way to win. And that's what they are supposed to be trying to do, right?
Well put. This pretty much sums it up. Dumoulin may not like it, but all of this is part of stage racing. Tom with a weak team the hope is that accumulated fatigue will make him vulnerable later. It's just that time is running short and the opportunities to take advantage of any weaknesses of his team and him from the fatigue collected over the course of the Giro are limited. Dumoulin has shown to be too strong on the terrain where Nibali and Quintana hoped to gain their time.
Meeeh. I don't know how hard he *** himself over by being so stubborn and wanting to ride his own pace. He was on his own for the whole flat part of the climb, whereas the others sat on the wheels of domestiques the entire climb.

He can still win. Nobody was agressive today. I don't see anybody going for it on the Grappa. I see a break with domestiques survinving over Foza. From then it's anyones game.
If this was only a bad day and his shape is still good everything went perfectly for him. Nairo in Blockhaus shape would have gained 3-4 minutes. That said, I have the feeling he will have difficulties tomorrow as well.
Think this day was worse than on the day he lost the Vuelta. Then he was the 8th best climber in the race and 6 climbers rode away from him again, with the only difference being that it was 50km from the line.

Now he got dropped by 30 men on a climb where dropping early fucks you over.

Red Rick said:
Think this day was worse than on the day he lost the Vuelta. Then he was the 8th best climber in the race and 6 climbers rode away from him again, with the only difference being that it was 50km from the line.

Now he got dropped by 30 men on a climb where dropping early **** you over.
he still finished 10th best from the main group

and lol at Quintana gaining 3-4 minutes when Pinot going full gas from far out gained 1.20
Sep 25, 2009
it was a karma-light day for tom. tomorrow might be a coup degrace, IF and only if, the nibs, quintana, zak and pinot teams decide to deliver it in a coordinated fashion. the weakness seen today was limited but obvious. but everyone is apparently dead tired too.

if the teams play own cards, big t still has a good chance at a podium. at least.



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