Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Brullnux]

Re:

No Froome is no match for Dumoulin on a hilly course.

If it was a full on mountain ITT like TDF 2nd ITT last year maybe.

It's a proper climb at the end, it isn't a rolling course that Dumoulin excels in. 3km at 10% will definitely exclude Martin, and probably Dennis too. It's length is another thing in Froome's favour. It means that there is only 27km of flat before the final climb. Afaik those 27km are pretty flat, not rolling. Even if they are rolling, that's better for Froome relative to Dumoulin. The last climb helps Froome more than Dumoulin, and we have seen him in the past excel in these sorts of climbs. Although, we have also seen Dumoulin do so. Froome won't be in top shape though.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Don't discount Castroviejo, he is getting a bit better year by year. I think it will be Dumoulin's biggest rival.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin targets WC ITT. So no Vuelta GC.

It's time he wins that WC ITT finally. And it's a hilly course I heard so no excuses. I think not Martin or Dennis but Roglic might actually be the biggest problem on a hilly course

Froome

Froome's scheduling will work against him. Tour+Vuelta is the target. Don't know how much time between the end of the Vuelta and that TT but it absolutely cannot help him that's coming off a 3 month long peak

 

[Galic Ho]

Re: Re:

Mollema is lower calibre than Porte. Porte performs better than he does.

I didn't say that Mollema would be replacing Porte.

He currently gets the grand tour Contador doesn't want.

Why move to BMC, who have Porte and Tejay?

Yes they have a lot of money and a bigger contract would be good. Trek aren't exactly short in cash for their budget either.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Ofcourse that could bring problems when the aggression starts early in a multi mountain stage. But this Giro he's always been able to be there until the final climb, and then limit the damage, and on a good day even deal the damage (Oropa, Blockhaus, he could've done damage on Ortisei as well if the finish was uphill)

Yet another myth - Watch the mountain stages again in the TDF - Teams allow Sky to have a Sunday afternoon stage until they reach the first mountain - Then they wonder why the climber heavy Sky drill the climbs. The run up to the climbs and even climbing the first mountain at his Giro were fast and furious.

 

[yaco]

Why would Dumoulin leave Sunweb - He'll receive enough support to contend for future GT's, as well as attractive financial renumeration.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Mollema is lower calibre than Porte. Porte performs better than he does.

I didn't say that Mollema would be replacing Porte.

He currently gets the grand tour Contador doesn't want.

Why move to BMC, who have Porte and Tejay?

Yes they have a lot of money and a bigger contract would be good. Trek aren't exactly short in cash for their budget either.

Next year, Contador will target the Giro and the Vuelta.
Read somewhere that Aru could be going to Trek next year. Yes, speculation, much like my previous posts were speculative.
Anyway, Aru going to Trek next year means Mollema would have no GT sole leadership so, if the opportunity arises, why not leaving Trek? Plus, they'd need the money to have both Aru and Contador.

About TJVG, doubt he'll stay at BMC with a lower salary. And I doubt that BMC would re-sign him based on the vast amount of nothing (GT-wise) he has done since 2015.

So, all in all, this speculative post is based on the assumption that Aru could go to Trek. But one way or another, TJVG will most likely be leaving BMC at the end of his contract.

 

[Roninho]

Re: Re:

Now Sunweb is going to have to sign a bunch of climbers to help Dumo. Who will be available at the end of this season?

They have Barguil and Kelderman. The former would have to accept domestique duties of course. They only need a couple more really.

Barguil is a priced commodity for Sunweb. He's their top prospect and developed as a GC rider from the beginning, so I don't think they will ask him to do the domestique role. He's expected to lead the TdF in the near future. Dumo is still new to the GC game, so he can keep doing the smaller GTs to gain more experience before taking on Froome and co. In the meantime, they will need a lot more than Kelderman to help Dumo. Ten Dam is really there for providing the leadership and experience, he can't go deep in the high mountains like he used to anymore.

So the 26 year old winner of the Giro, who also finished 6th in the vuelta and won 7GT stages including aTDF mountain stage and TDF TT win is "new to theGC game" and should do the smaller GT's while Barguil shouldlead the TDF?
Barguil? Who to date has a 14th in the TDf and 8th in the Vuelta as best results in GQ?

 

[Roninho]

Re: Re:

Remember we had the same talk about Lotto NL building a team around Kruijswijk?

Yes, not gonna happen. Too poor and incapable.

The big difference is Kruijswijk didn't win a Grand Tour, it would be sponsorship speculation that he might, Tom has won a Grand Tour, so you are backing a proven winner with a Giro to his name, that should count for more?

It isnt just about Kruiswijk not winning. For the general public he came out of nowhere and basically was in the news for like a couple of days. He's not a household name.

Dumoulin has been in the media repeatedly the last couple of years: being the dutch favourite for the Tdf start in utrecht, same for the giro start in the netherlands, the dutch hope for a a olympic medal, winning in the tour, winning in the vuelta, and now the past couple of weeks in Italy.

Continous media attention backed up with results and the chance to be assiocated with a potential dutch TDF contender for the next couple of years. That should be a different "proposition" to sponsors compared to Kruiswijk.

 

[vedrafjord]

Re:

Wilco Kelderman, whether he intended on doing this or not, threw his road captain a huge freebie by taking Geraint Thomas and Mikel Landa out of the GC race.

Had they been there, Sky would have punished Sunweb along with Movistar.

Clever move Kelderman. Clever move.

I don't think so because the next stage was the time trial and Thomas would have been comfortably ahead of Landa after it. So Sky would have raced defensively to suit Thomas, which would have suited Dumoulin too.

According to Helmantel and co Dumoulin's best performances this Giro (Blockhaus, ITT, Oropa), rivaled those of best Froome TDF in wattages. (TT tops Froome)

The question is if he can prevent degrading too much in the 3rd week.

Link?

 

[mavmav]

Re: Re:

Speed skaters, most notably Sven Kramer
1 Formula one dude who gets all the attention in the world in here
Footbal players and a failing national team
Few sailers and surfers
Dafne Schippers
Field hockey teams
Ladies handball

Thats about it. Dumoulin should definitely be the biggest thing tho

The Dutch are also easily the best country in the world when it comes to kickboxing, at least in the heavyweights (for lower weight classes Thailand is the best). They have been for decades producing many of the all time greats in that sport, but for some incomprehensible reason it gets almost zero coverage in most Dutch media.

For years Kickboxing had a terrible image. All Dutch kickboxing events ended up in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. Fighting among the crowd. Open drug dealing. A who's-who of top criminals ringside. Nobody talked about what happend inside the ring. But it seems most of that has been dealt with. And now that one of the premier sports channels picked up Glory, it's slowly getting mainstream.

I would say there are 4 Dutch "superstars" right now who are extremely marketable in the Netherlands:

Max Verstappen
Daphne Schippers
Sven Kramer
Epke Zonderland

You can now put Tom Dumoulin in that list.

 

[DanielSong39]

The two Sky riders (and Adam Yates) would've affected the race and possibly the outcome. But luck is part of the sport.
Dumoulin has been on the wrong end of bad luck as well; 3 DNF's in 4 GT starts preceding his Giro victory.

Among the next generation of GT riders it's Aru and Dumoulin with 1 GT apiece. Chaves came close in last year's Giro and won the Lombardia so he may be another one to look out for.

Looking forward to seeing him in next year's Tour.

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

Speed skaters, most notably Sven Kramer
1 Formula one dude who gets all the attention in the world in here
Footbal players and a failing national team
Few sailers and surfers
Dafne Schippers
Field hockey teams
Ladies handball

Thats about it. Dumoulin should definitely be the biggest thing tho

The Dutch are also easily the best country in the world when it comes to kickboxing, at least in the heavyweights (for lower weight classes Thailand is the best). They have been for decades producing many of the all time greats in that sport, but for some incomprehensible reason it gets almost zero coverage in most Dutch media.

For years Kickboxing had a terrible image. All Dutch kickboxing events ended up in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. Fighting among the crowd. Open drug dealing. A who's-who of top criminals ringside. Nobody talked about what happend inside the ring. But it seems most of that has been dealt with. And now that one of the premier sports channels picked up Glory, it's slowly getting mainstream.

I would say there are 4 Dutch "superstars" right now who are extremely marketable in the Netherlands:

Max Verstappen
Daphne Schippers
Sven Kramer
Epke Zonderland

You can now put Tom Dumoulin in that list.

Sven Kramer? Really? Do people outside of Friesland actually care about him?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Speed skaters, most notably Sven Kramer
1 Formula one dude who gets all the attention in the world in here
Footbal players and a failing national team
Few sailers and surfers
Dafne Schippers
Field hockey teams
Ladies handball

Thats about it. Dumoulin should definitely be the biggest thing tho

The Dutch are also easily the best country in the world when it comes to kickboxing, at least in the heavyweights (for lower weight classes Thailand is the best). They have been for decades producing many of the all time greats in that sport, but for some incomprehensible reason it gets almost zero coverage in most Dutch media.

For years Kickboxing had a terrible image. All Dutch kickboxing events ended up in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. Fighting among the crowd. Open drug dealing. A who's-who of top criminals ringside. Nobody talked about what happend inside the ring. But it seems most of that has been dealt with. And now that one of the premier sports channels picked up Glory, it's slowly getting mainstream.

I would say there are 4 Dutch "superstars" right now who are extremely marketable in the Netherlands:

Max Verstappen
Daphne Schippers
Sven Kramer
Epke Zonderland

You can now put Tom Dumoulin in that list.

Sven Kramer? Really? Do people outside of Friesland actually care about him?

Kramer is easily the most consistent world class and marketable athlete in the country in the last decade. Speed skating is huge in Friesland, but it's reasonably big everywhere else too. It's like cyclocross in Flanders, but to a lesser extent. He's a pretty big deal, also because he's super charismatic

 

[Bardamu]

Maybe, but as a Dutch person I've never met a person who follows speed skating. Always wonder why it is still on tv every year.

 

[l.Harm]

I know plenty of people who do.

 

[Bardamu]

Well that settles that.

Any chance Tom is going to focus both on the Worlds and Lombardia for the end of the season?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

No Froome is no match for Dumoulin on a hilly course.

If it was a full on mountain ITT like TDF 2nd ITT last year maybe.

It's a proper climb at the end, it isn't a rolling course that Dumoulin excels in. 3km at 10% will definitely exclude Martin, and probably Dennis too. It's length is another thing in Froome's favour. It means that there is only 27km of flat before the final climb. Afaik those 27km are pretty flat, not rolling. Even if they are rolling, that's better for Froome relative to Dumoulin. The last climb helps Froome more than Dumoulin, and we have seen him in the past excel in these sorts of climbs. Although, we have also seen Dumoulin do so. Froome won't be in top shape though.

Dumoulin also won the ITT in Pais Vasco with the Alto de Aia. That was considerably harder than this one. You are considerably underrating Dumoulin in this kind of ITT

 

[kingjr]

Re:

Maybe, but as a Dutch person I've never met a person who follows speed skating. Always wonder why it is still on tv every year.

I used to watch it occasionally in the days of Gunda Niemann-Stirnemann and Anni Friesinger

 

[mavmav]

Re: Re:

No Froome is no match for Dumoulin on a hilly course.

If it was a full on mountain ITT like TDF 2nd ITT last year maybe.

It's a proper climb at the end, it isn't a rolling course that Dumoulin excels in. 3km at 10% will definitely exclude Martin, and probably Dennis too. It's length is another thing in Froome's favour. It means that there is only 27km of flat before the final climb. Afaik those 27km are pretty flat, not rolling. Even if they are rolling, that's better for Froome relative to Dumoulin. The last climb helps Froome more than Dumoulin, and we have seen him in the past excel in these sorts of climbs. Although, we have also seen Dumoulin do so. Froome won't be in top shape though.

Dumoulin also won the ITT in Pais Vasco with the Alto de Aia. That was considerably harder than this one. You are considerably underrating Dumoulin in this kind of ITT

Yeah, there seems to be a vibe that Dumoulin has trouble on punchy climbs... But when you look at his results on punchy climbs he's actually good at it...

 

[Roninho]

Re:

Maybe, but as a Dutch person I've never met a person who follows speed skating. Always wonder why it is still on tv every year.

Because the tv ratings are high and because Dutch skaters keep winning for 30 years, which kind of makes it a continuous cycle.

TheNOS will broadcast any sport on the highest level if a dutch person is winning in it (unless there are other issues like with fighting). Which is why they have shown motocross gp's live this season. And if your shown on the NOS you'll have high tv ratings. With skating being essentially a dutch open championship we'll see it for a long time.

 

[claude cat]

:razz:

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

:razz:

Certainly not the approach of Tom Boonen who gave out beer to journalists outside his house

There is an edge to Tom Dumoulin that peeks out now and again

 

[Valv.Piti]

Pretty bad mannered

 

[Bardamu]

Wouldn't call him bad mannered. He just tends to get annoyed/irritated when he is focused or tired.