Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

Thing is I don't think he really needs more than he has as he should be able to latch unto that Sky train just fine. Will obviously depend on racing situation, but Tom isn't in that position that he absolutely needs great mountain support as people first and foremost will concentrate on beating Sky and Froome.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Dumoulin

"I'm really not thinking about my future at the moment. Right now, my future is one big pile of beer tonight"

He already looked a bit drunk at post race interview munching on a slice of pizza bought by his mother from across the street.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin

"I'm really not thinking about my future at the moment. Right now, my future is one big pile of beer tonight"

He already looked a bit drunk at post race interview munching on a slice of pizza bought by his mother from across the street.

And rightfully so

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Thing is I don't think he really needs more than he has as he should be able to latch unto that Sky train just fine. Will obviously depend on racing situation, but Tom isn't in that position that he absolutely needs great mountain support as people first and foremost will concentrate on beating Sky and Froome.

This presupposes both (1) that he will always be focused on the Tour and (2) that Sky will use exactly the same tactics against a hypothetically dangerous challenge from a steady-climbing TTist that they deploy against specialist climbers who are inferior TTists to Froome. And even if those assumptions should prove to be correct, there would be plenty of circumstances where having a couple of very strong support riders would benefit any GT contender.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin

"I'm really not thinking about my future at the moment. Right now, my future is one big pile of beer tonight"

He already looked a bit drunk at post race interview munching on a slice of pizza bought by his mother from across the street.

And rightfully so

I wonder if he's gonna wake up this morning and has to go ask his GF if he won or lost yesterday

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Thing is I don't think he really needs more than he has as he should be able to latch unto that Sky train just fine. Will obviously depend on racing situation, but Tom isn't in that position that he absolutely needs great mountain support as people first and foremost will concentrate on beating Sky and Froome.

This presupposes both (1) that he will always be focused on the Tour and (2) that Sky will use exactly the same tactics against a hypothetically dangerous challenge from a steady-climbing TTist that they deploy against specialist climbers who are inferior TTists to Froome. And even if those assumptions should prove to be correct, there would be plenty of circumstances where having a couple of very strong support riders would benefit any GT contender.

You really like to argue all the time don't you?

 

[Red Rick]

I've seen no Dutch website or journalist say anything about a possible TdF victory. Great to see

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin

"I'm really not thinking about my future at the moment. Right now, my future is one big pile of beer tonight"

He already looked a bit drunk at post race interview munching on a slice of pizza bought by his mother from across the street.

And rightfully so

I wonder if he's gonna wake up this morning and has to go ask his GF if he won or lost yesterday

Hopefully she will tell him that he just joined a very select group of riders, six to be more precise, whom he will still meet for a few years on the road, the Grand Tour winners.

 

[contador_attacks]

Chapeau, Tom!

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Thing is I don't think he really needs more than he has as he should be able to latch unto that Sky train just fine. Will obviously depend on racing situation, but Tom isn't in that position that he absolutely needs great mountain support as people first and foremost will concentrate on beating Sky and Froome.

This presupposes both (1) that he will always be focused on the Tour and (2) that Sky will use exactly the same tactics against a hypothetically dangerous challenge from a steady-climbing TTist that they deploy against specialist climbers who are inferior TTists to Froome. And even if those assumptions should prove to be correct, there would be plenty of circumstances where having a couple of very strong support riders would benefit any GT contender.

You really like to argue all the time don't you?

This is a discussion board. We share opinions here and argue about them. I'd have thought you might have noticed this after nearly 6,000 posts.

 

[hrotha]

I'm a bit ambivalent about this win. I sorta like Dumoulin, and no one deserved it more than him, but I can't shake the feeling that he didn't do enough. That in normal circumstances, with rivals worth a damn, his two mistakes should absolutely have cost him the race. That he wasn't really pushed to his limits.

Still, as I said, no one deserved it more than him, so kudos for that.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

I'm a bit ambivalent about this win. I sorta like Dumoulin, and no one deserved it more than him, but I can't shake the feeling that he didn't do enough. That in normal circumstances, with rivals worth a damn, his two mistakes should absolutely have cost him the race. That he wasn't really pushed to his limits.

Still, as I said, no one deserved it more than him, so kudos for that.

in terms of rivals I don't think that's entirely fair. His two closest challengers won two of the last three GTs. Short of Froome these guys are as good as it currently gets. I do think though that his two big issues would have cost him a Tour, not because his rivals would be much better but because Tour level support teams would have buried him once he was off the back.

That was the real problem with the level of competition - Sunweb were poor, Bahrain were almost as poor and Movistar, while reasonably good, weren't at their own Tour level or anywhere near Sky's Tour level. Sky had the strongest support team here but they spent their time murdering most riders in the breakaway rather than putting the knife into Tom.

 

[hrotha]

Nothing bad to say about the athletic level of his rivals, but you probably know what I think of Quintana as a racer, and Nibali was egregiously un-Nibali-like during this Giro.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I'm a bit ambivalent about this win. I sorta like Dumoulin, and no one deserved it more than him, but I can't shake the feeling that he didn't do enough. That in normal circumstances, with rivals worth a damn, his two mistakes should absolutely have cost him the race. That he wasn't really pushed to his limits.

Still, as I said, no one deserved it more than him, so kudos for that.

He looked very tired after the previous stage. After gifting his rivals three minutes Nibali and Quintana will see it as a lost opportunity. It was a race where no one seemed at the top of their game especially in the final week and Pinot who did look better failed in both TTs. The first TT should have been enough for Dumoulin to win the race but after his roadside break and going to sleep on one stage and dropping time, he let them back into the race. In the third week he was tiring and they still couldn't take advantage of it. His rivals needed one more MTF but they already had plenty of opportunities. Thomas, Landa and Yates falling out of contention early after the crash only helped Dumoulin as well. Dumoulin won it the hard way which will only give him more confidence and motivation.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I'm a bit ambivalent about this win. I sorta like Dumoulin, and no one deserved it more than him, but I can't shake the feeling that he didn't do enough. That in normal circumstances, with rivals worth a damn, his two mistakes should absolutely have cost him the race. That he wasn't really pushed to his limits.

Still, as I said, no one deserved it more than him, so kudos for that.

He looked very tired after the previous stage. After gifting his rivals three minutes Nibali and Quintana will see it as a lost opportunity. It was a race where no one seemed at the top of their game especially in the final week and Pinot who did look better failed in both TTs. The first TT should have been enough for Dumoulin to win the race but after his roadside break and going to sleep on one stage and dropping time, he let them back into the race. In the third week he was tiring and they still couldn't take advantage of it. His rivals needed one more MTF but they already had plenty of opportunities. Thomas, Landa and Yates falling out of contention early after the crash only helped Dumoulin as well. Dumoulin won it the hard way which will only give him more confidence and motivation.

If Landa had ended up as Sky leader it would have been a disadvantage for Dumoulin, because it's one more guy attacking in the mountains. If Thomas had ended up Sky leader, I suspect it would have been a big help. Then he gets a diesel climber ally and Landa, Rosa, Deignan, Henao, Kiryienka working to control attackers. A slightly weaker than him Thomas as Sky leader is a dream scenario. I don't think Yates was quite strong enough to matter.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

A guy who just won also costs a lot more money, so there's that.

Question is if he needs anymore if he is gonna seriously target TdF. I wouldn't bet on Sunweb controlling anything anyways, Sky is there.

It will make more sense to build a better team around him than go to Sky but of course that costs money with salary increase as well. He should get good publicity out of this so i am sure some sponsors will be interested. It would make no sense going to Sky until Froome disappeared or stopped winning GTS. Money is important and athletes have short careers so riders like Landa have a lot of thinking to do also. Porte made the right move leaving Sky but also needs a better team. I am sure BMC would also be interested in Dumoulin in maybe two years time pending Porte's performances although Porte is only signed until the end of this season and TJVG as a team leader in GTs is also up int the air at the moment.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I'm a bit ambivalent about this win. I sorta like Dumoulin, and no one deserved it more than him, but I can't shake the feeling that he didn't do enough. That in normal circumstances, with rivals worth a damn, his two mistakes should absolutely have cost him the race. That he wasn't really pushed to his limits.

Still, as I said, no one deserved it more than him, so kudos for that.

He looked very tired after the previous stage. After gifting his rivals three minutes Nibali and Quintana will see it as a lost opportunity. It was a race where no one seemed at the top of their game especially in the final week and Pinot who did look better failed in both TTs. The first TT should have been enough for Dumoulin to win the race but after his roadside break and going to sleep on one stage and dropping time, he let them back into the race. In the third week he was tiring and they still couldn't take advantage of it. His rivals needed one more MTF but they already had plenty of opportunities. Thomas, Landa and Yates falling out of contention early after the crash only helped Dumoulin as well. Dumoulin won it the hard way which will only give him more confidence and motivation.

If Landa had ended up as Sky leader it would have been a disadvantage for Dumoulin, because it's one more guy attacking in the mountains. If Thomas had ended up Sky leader, I suspect it would have been a big help. Then he gets a diesel climber ally and Landa, Rosa, Deignan, Henao, Kiryienka working to control attackers. A slightly weaker than him Thomas as Sky leader is a dream scenario. I don't think Yates was quite strong enough to matter.

Yes Landa would have been much more aggressive in the mountains. He would have been the real danger. Without his lost time in the crash Yates would have been fighting out the top five but the TT would not have helped but he could have been dangerous to Dumoulin if he got away with a better climber. As it was Nibali and Quintana couldn't completely crack Dumoulin.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

A guy who just won also costs a lot more money, so there's that.

Question is if he needs anymore if he is gonna seriously target TdF. I wouldn't bet on Sunweb controlling anything anyways, Sky is there.

It will make more sense to build a better team around him than go to Sky but of course that costs money with salary increase as well. He should get good publicity out of this so i am sure some sponsors will be interested. It would make no sense going to Sky until Froome disappeared or stopped winning GTS. Money is important and athletes have short careers so riders like Landa have a lot of thinking to do also. Porte made the right move leaving Sky but also needs a better team. I am sure BMC would also be interested in Dumoulin in maybe two years time pending Porte's performances although Porte is only signed until the end of this season and TJVG as a team leader in GTs is also up int the air at the moment.

Somehow I can't see Dumoulin going to BMC (though he fits the profile). Imo, that's a ship that has already sailed. Dumoulin is destined to go to Sky.

However, I can see Jungels going to BMC.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

A guy who just won also costs a lot more money, so there's that.

Question is if he needs anymore if he is gonna seriously target TdF. I wouldn't bet on Sunweb controlling anything anyways, Sky is there.

It will make more sense to build a better team around him than go to Sky but of course that costs money with salary increase as well. He should get good publicity out of this so i am sure some sponsors will be interested. It would make no sense going to Sky until Froome disappeared or stopped winning GTS. Money is important and athletes have short careers so riders like Landa have a lot of thinking to do also. Porte made the right move leaving Sky but also needs a better team. I am sure BMC would also be interested in Dumoulin in maybe two years time pending Porte's performances although Porte is only signed until the end of this season and TJVG as a team leader in GTs is also up int the air at the moment.

Somehow I can't see Dumoulin going to BMC (though he fits the profile). Imo, that's a ship that has already sailed. Dumoulin is destined to go to Sky.

However, I can see Jungels going to BMC.

Yeah Jungels could be the TJVG replacement. It's hard to see TJVG getting another shot as team leader and his final week was quite good with the pressure off. He won a stage and even his final TT was an improvement so they might restructure his contract and keep him as a stage hunter/domestique and set him for one week stage races. Whether TJVG would like that is another thing !

 

[TheEnoculator]

Re: Re:

Now Sunweb is going to have to sign a bunch of climbers to help Dumo. Who will be available at the end of this season?

They have Barguil and Kelderman. The former would have to accept domestique duties of course. They only need a couple more really.

Barguil is a priced commodity for Sunweb. He's their top prospect and developed as a GC rider from the beginning, so I don't think they will ask him to do the domestique role. He's expected to lead the TdF in the near future. Dumo is still new to the GC game, so he can keep doing the smaller GTs to gain more experience before taking on Froome and co. In the meantime, they will need a lot more than Kelderman to help Dumo. Ten Dam is really there for providing the leadership and experience, he can't go deep in the high mountains like he used to anymore.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

A guy who just won also costs a lot more money, so there's that.

Question is if he needs anymore if he is gonna seriously target TdF. I wouldn't bet on Sunweb controlling anything anyways, Sky is there.

It will make more sense to build a better team around him than go to Sky but of course that costs money with salary increase as well. He should get good publicity out of this so i am sure some sponsors will be interested. It would make no sense going to Sky until Froome disappeared or stopped winning GTS. Money is important and athletes have short careers so riders like Landa have a lot of thinking to do also. Porte made the right move leaving Sky but also needs a better team. I am sure BMC would also be interested in Dumoulin in maybe two years time pending Porte's performances although Porte is only signed until the end of this season and TJVG as a team leader in GTs is also up int the air at the moment.

Somehow I can't see Dumoulin going to BMC (though he fits the profile). Imo, that's a ship that has already sailed. Dumoulin is destined to go to Sky.

However, I can see Jungels going to BMC.

Yeah Jungels could be the TJVG replacement. It's hard to see TJVG getting another shot as team leader and his final week was quite good with the pressure off. He won a stage and even his final TT was an improvement so they might restructure his contract and keep him as a stage hunter/domestique and set him for one week stage races. Whether TJVG would like that is another thing !

Yeah, can't really see TJVG agreeing with that. At least according to his reaction to his stage win.
I also don't think Rohan Dennis will end up a top-5 GC contender. Even for the remaining top-10 I have doubts... and Porte will be 32 years-old this year, so he doesn't have many years left.

I still think TJ will get another shot. The last one.
And they'll either get Jungels (completely fits the profile of their GC riders), Bauke Mollema or Uran (also fits the profile).

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Now Sunweb is going to have to sign a bunch of climbers to help Dumo. Who will be available at the end of this season?

They have Barguil and Kelderman. The former would have to accept domestique duties of course. They only need a couple more really.

Barguil is a priced commodity for Sunweb. He's their top prospect and developed as a GC rider from the beginning, so I don't think they will ask him to do the domestique role. He's expected to lead the TdF in the near future. Dumo is still new to the GC game, so he can keep doing the smaller GTs to gain more experience before taking on Froome and co. In the meantime, they will need a lot more than Kelderman to help Dumo. Ten Dam is really there for providing the leadership and experience, he can't go deep in the high mountains like he used to anymore.

Dumoulin is a proven GT stage winner and GT winner now. Barguil isn't anywhere near him and never will be because of his poor TTing. Barguil should be given leadership in the Classics and he should go for mountain jersey's and stage wins in the GT's. Leave the overall for Dumoulin.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

A guy who just won also costs a lot more money, so there's that.

Question is if he needs anymore if he is gonna seriously target TdF. I wouldn't bet on Sunweb controlling anything anyways, Sky is there.

It will make more sense to build a better team around him than go to Sky but of course that costs money with salary increase as well. He should get good publicity out of this so i am sure some sponsors will be interested. It would make no sense going to Sky until Froome disappeared or stopped winning GTS. Money is important and athletes have short careers so riders like Landa have a lot of thinking to do also. Porte made the right move leaving Sky but also needs a better team. I am sure BMC would also be interested in Dumoulin in maybe two years time pending Porte's performances although Porte is only signed until the end of this season and TJVG as a team leader in GTs is also up int the air at the moment.

Somehow I can't see Dumoulin going to BMC (though he fits the profile). Imo, that's a ship that has already sailed. Dumoulin is destined to go to Sky.

However, I can see Jungels going to BMC.

Yeah Jungels could be the TJVG replacement. It's hard to see TJVG getting another shot as team leader and his final week was quite good with the pressure off. He won a stage and even his final TT was an improvement so they might restructure his contract and keep him as a stage hunter/domestique and set him for one week stage races. Whether TJVG would like that is another thing !

Yeah, can't really see TJVG agreeing with that. At least according to his reaction to his stage win.
I also don't think Rohan Dennis will end up a top-5 GC contender. Even for the remaining top-10 I have doubts... and Porte will be 32 years-old this year, so he doesn't have many years left.

I still think TJ will get another shot. The last one.
And they'll either get Jungels (completely fits the profile of their GC riders), Bauke Mollema or Uran (also fits the profile).

Well it's not really up to TJVG when his contract is up but he does sound like he wants to continue as a GC rider. As for Dennis he has a big engine but will have to drop more weight for the mountains. At the moment he isn't even a top 10 rider because he hasn't done a three week race. I think he could possibly end up being a top 10 rider which really isn't much better than TJVG is doing at the moment. I think he made the top 20 thanks to some of his breaks. I think BMC will put Dennis in the Vuelta just to see how he handles the three weeks. BMC must see some possibilities in Dennis to be thinking about him for GC and he is still young. Porte probably only has a few more good seasons to try and reach the podium. I don't really see the need for Dumoulin to go to Sky unless it's simply a money issue where one team can no longer afford him and one is offering a lot more. He could stay where he is and target the Tour next year which will probably have more TT kms but he does need more help in the mountains. The sponsors and Dumoulin will be thinking of the Tour more than returning to the Giro I think. Pinot, Yates and Zakarin and Thomas should do the Giro again and Landa as well. Hard to tell what TJVG will do next year unless he and Dennis go to the Giro again. Actually this year's Giro course looked good for Porte but their number one GT rider usually does the Tour. Quintana will probably return to the Tour next year with Nibali.

 

[wwabbit]

Re:

I've seen no Dutch website or journalist say anything about a possible TdF victory. Great to see

I'm guessing that's only because we don't expect to see a course like 2012 again for a while

 

[cellardoor]

Kruijswijk would be perfect as a dom for Tom and I think his ship has sailed as a potential GT winner now.