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Tom 'Pidders' Pidcock

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Have been a big fan of Pidcock since his early days in CX, but have lost faith this season. Not in his abilities as a rider, but his character. Ineos have completely indulged his MTB/CX schedules, while getting very little in return on the road. This year, he hasn't had a decent day since June, until Emillia.

If he just concentrated on road/CX, like MVDP, then he'd be much more successful and productive for the team. There are undoubtably issues at Ineos, but pandering to Pidcock isn't one of them. I wish him well, and also team without the burden of his salary.
Pidcock is NOT a well liked character in the peloton. To the point where he's probably going to need to take a Pro Conti contract
 
Q36.5 may feel that Pidcock plus another decent signing will get them an invite?

To which GT, for Tour you have Tudor, Total and UNO X already for 2 spots, for the Giro you have basically 3 teams that are guaranteed the 3 spots that are free (Tudor, Bardiani and Polti) and for the Vuelta you have multiple Spanish Pro Conti teams for only 2 spots (Caja and Burgos their turn next year). Unless either Israel or Lotto skips the Vuelta (chances are really small) there's no extra spot. So the chances Q36.5 gets a WC to any GT are almost 0, even with Pidcock and maybe rumored Kwiatkowski (option according to Gazzetta).

Pidcock is NOT a well liked character in the peloton. To the point where he's probably going to need to take a Pro Conti contract
Apart from Q36.5, Red Bull (this is known, but they are trying to get Van Gils for that position), Astana (they will definitely be interested but does he wants to go there) and even Visma are interested according to Benson. Of course teams are interested in Pidcock, really doesn't matter that he's maybe somewhat disliked. You think teams like Astana care lmao.
 
To which GT, for Tour you have Tudor, Total and UNO X already for 2 spots, for the Giro you have basically 3 teams that are guaranteed the 3 spots that are free (Tudor, Bardiani and Polti) and for the Vuelta you have multiple Spanish Pro Conti teams for only 2 spots (Caja and Burgos their turn next year). Unless either Israel or Lotto skips the Vuelta (chances are really small) there's no extra spot. So the chances Q36.5 gets a WC to any GT are almost 0, even with Pidcock and maybe rumored Kwiatkowski (option according to Gazzetta).


Apart from Q36.5, Red Bull (this is known, but they are trying to get Van Gils for that position), Astana (they will definitely be interested but does he wants to go there) and even Visma are interested according to Benson. Of course teams are interested in Pidcock, really doesn't matter that he's maybe somewhat disliked. You think teams like Astana care lmao.
Teams will be interested in Pidcock's skillset, certainly, but Ineos gave him an inflated contract on account of his potential and being British. This will hamper negotiations.

As for personality issues, apparently that is what got Pidcock's contract terminated. Even Rohan Dennis struggled to achieve that.
 
As for personality issues, apparently that is what got Pidcock's contract terminated. Even Rohan Dennis struggled to achieve that.
That is indeed a frightening thought. From what I've seen in interviews, vlog segments, TdF Netflix etc he comes across as both supremely self confident and self aware, but not really a good teammate. I don't particularly dislike him because I'm in awe of his MTB skills especially, but I don't think he rides for anyone but Tom Pidcock.
 
People act like it's Pidcock's fault he has a big salary, the only person whos fault it is, is the person in charge of negotiations at Ineos. Mcquaid and Trinity new exactly what they had with him. The top British talent with huge potential in a number of different ways, and a team at the end of 2020 post Froome, Thomas getting older etc clearly desperate not to miss out on him, to the point where they ruined their budget because of it. Why wouldn't Trinty sports management try to get the best deal ever? I don't think they would expect the same salary from another team in the future.
Ineos didn't have to sign Tom. That is the point.
Then to throw their toys out the pram by not signing Gloag, at the time the next big talent, because he had the same agent. It's soooo petty, and I can't really believe how unprofessional it actually is, especially because they can only be annoyed with their own decisions. So this type of outcome (with the added Gloag/Sivakov situation) really wasn't a surprise in hindsight because they've already shown what type of people they are.
 
Pidcock at Ineos was never a good fit, the only thing is that he was the British super talent, so they pretty much had to sign him. But other than that he doesn't suit that team at all. Not in terms of racing style, not in terms of the calendar, not in terms of his offroad ambitions, not in terms of his personality.

And let's be honest, if he really was as good as he thinks he is, they probably would have kept him because that would have made him irreplaceable. He's not. As a road rider he's good but not exceptional, certainly not in this era of cycling.
 
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Pidcock at Ineos was never a good fit, the only thing is that he was the British super talent, so they pretty much had to sign him. But other than that he doesn't suit that team at all. Not in terms of racing style, not in terms of the calendar, not in terms of his offroad ambitions, not in terms of his personality.

And let's be honest, if he really was as good as he thinks he is, they probably would have kept him because that would have made him irreplaceable. He's not. As a road rider he's good but not exceptional, certainly not in this era of cycling.
Bigger issue I think is MTB and road is just not possible, and it makes me question if Pidcock is really at his ceiling as a road rider.
 
You would think he would be a perfect fit for Red Bull/Bora. He can fly the RB flag in CX/MTB and still ride a few big road races. Give him 1.5 million a year, which is a pretty good deal for an MTB WC, Top 3 in CX, a one day classic or two and just maybe another big TdF stage win. He can be a lone wolf if he wants with that schedule.
That would be fair and if Pidcock accepts that kind of money (maybe some additional Red Bull deal on the side) it would be reasonable for both parties.
 
IMO he clearly isn't. Just look at some of his good climbing results in Tirreno-Adriatico, the Tour de Suisse and the first half of the 2023 Tour de France, while having a MTB heavy meme-prep.
It depends on what kind of rider he wants to be. He could maybe become a new Alaphilippe. There's relatively few (or no) Ardennes specialists right now. But as a GC rider... he has some flashes of decent climbing results, certainly if it stays relatively calm and then a sprint at the end. That's what he's good at. But over three weeks against the real big engines, I don't know.
 
It depends on what kind of rider he wants to be. He could maybe become a new Alaphilippe. There's relatively few (or no) Ardennes specialists right now. But as a GC rider... he has some flashes of decent climbing results, certainly if it stays relatively calm and then a sprint at the end. That's what he's good at. But over three weeks against the real big engines, I don't know.
Doesn't have to be a gc rider in gts. Hilly one day races, shorter stage races and stagehunting in GTs is totally fine.

I also have to say that his Paris-Roubaix showing as a sub 60kg guy, after rushing back from a concussion (yeah, not very smart) was impressive. Yes, he ran out of steam at the end, but the pure display of bike handling skills as a lightweight to keep up with guys who are often 20kg or more heavier than him was spectacular.
 
People act like it's Pidcock's fault he has a big salary, the only person whos fault it is, is the person in charge of negotiations at Ineos. Mcquaid and Trinity new exactly what they had with him. The top British talent with huge potential in a number of different ways, and a team at the end of 2020 post Froome, Thomas getting older etc clearly desperate not to miss out on him, to the point where they ruined their budget because of it. Why wouldn't Trinty sports management try to get the best deal ever? I don't think they would expect the same salary from another team in the future.
Ineos didn't have to sign Tom. That is the point.
Then to throw their toys out the pram by not signing Gloag, at the time the next big talent, because he had the same agent. It's soooo petty, and I can't really believe how unprofessional it actually is, especially because they can only be annoyed with their own decisions. So this type of outcome (with the added Gloag/Sivakov situation) really wasn't a surprise in hindsight because they've already shown what type of people they are.
Yes, spot on!!
Ineos knew what they were getting when they signed him to a big contract. He wasn't your normal road rider, but a multi discipline threat. He's won in all disciplines. So, the criticism of his salary is nonsense really, and actually reeks of 'roadie elitism'.
 
Doesn't have to be a gc rider in gts. Hilly one day races, shorter stage races and stagehunting in GTs is totally fine.

I also have to say that his Paris-Roubaix showing as a sub 60kg guy, after rushing back from a concussion (yeah, not very smart) was impressive. Yes, he ran out of steam at the end, but the pure display of bike handling skills as a lightweight to keep up with guys who are often 20kg or more heavier than him was spectacular.
One issue (imo) is that he wants to be, but I agree, I think a March-May and July-October schedule is best, sort of Van der Poel like. Strade Bianche, Paris-Nice/TA, some cobbled classics, Ardennes, break, Tour, Autumn classics. Alaphilippe is the rider to look to, but he has more talent for cobbled races than Julian ever did I reckon.

I know there's a lot of talk about him being overrated, but to me it seems that stems from Ineos/himself rather than anyone else. I think he's a rider that is best of the rest behind Pogacar/Remco in hilly one day races, and can sometimes climb exceptionally, with a great engine that's unexplored in Flanders. He could maybe even move up to genuinely challenge the mutants in hilly races with a clearer schedule, if he wants to.
 
Bigger issue I think is MTB and road is just not possible, and it makes me question if Pidcock is really at his ceiling as a road rider.
I think his contract to date was largely negotiated to support his Worlds and Olympics ambitions in MTB. I mean lets face it, had he signed to another team, it would probably have been a failure combined with the road, much like MVDP and Alpecin's crack at Worlds and Olympics MTB really fizzled out to the point they gave up on that ambition and focused on Road.
Overall though, Pidcock's contract, his goals defined and the bigger picture on the road wasn't negotiated by any of the management team at Ineos today and that's the main issue now imo.
 
That is indeed a frightening thought. From what I've seen in interviews, vlog segments, TdF Netflix etc he comes across as both supremely self confident and self aware, but not really a good teammate. I don't particularly dislike him because I'm in awe of his MTB skills especially, but I don't think he rides for anyone but Tom Pidcock.

but there are a ton of riders in professional cycling that are like that, theyre not all best buddies with each other, Pidcock is not unique in being like that (even assuming that he is I usually file stuff like that under unsubstantiated gossip), and he shouldnt be unique in that, its often the difference between success at elite level and just one of the also rans.

You often see this kind of stuff said about riders in the women's peloton more, just because women tend to get criticised for it more, so and so is difficult to ride with, only thinks of themselves, not a good teammate etc etc which actually translates to so and so is focussed on actually achieving success and will do everything they can to achieve it.
 
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Yes, spot on!!
Ineos knew what they were getting when they signed him to a big contract. He wasn't your normal road rider, but a multi discipline threat. He's won in all disciplines. So, the criticism of his salary is nonsense really, and actually reeks of 'roadie elitism'.

it has the air of jealously from riders not being paid as much, who feel they are better riders and deserve it more
 
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Pidcocks road value depends a lot on if other teams will get more out of him than Ineos, and if he's willing to specialize more in road.

I thought one of the recent things he'd stated was thats his ambition of where he wants to go next, specialize more on road, feeling like hes accomplished his off road goals for the time being, Im sured he'd like to beat Wout & MvdP more often at CX. but theres not much more he can do in MTB.