Tom 'Pidders' Pidcock

[will-10]

Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems the British podcasters really cooled on discussing Pidders this year during the Tour. Did anyone else sense this? I wondered if it had to do with Pidders insistence that Steve Cummings be left of the Tour staff for Ineos.

he was pretty anonymous except the gravel stage, and went home after two weeks. Not sure it's that deep

 

[postmanhat]

Good to see him succeed today. I hope he can get another big win on the road this year.

Really hope this is the first year he races the Italian Fall, and/or Canada. They're tailor-made for him, and he's had a (relatively) light season.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Really hope this is the first year he races the Italian Fall, and/or Canada. They're tailor-made for him, and he's had a (relatively) light season.

I've no idea but perhaps depends on how much of a holiday he takes, some suggestions he defends his world mountain title in his Andorran backyard at the end of August, then tour of Britain and road worlds. Then ends season or perhaps some Italian races, then Lombardy.
If he had his way I would guess he would ride the end of season Mountain bike world cups in US and Canada.

 

[chickenlips]

It's nice to come into a Olympic champions thread, and not have to read loads of pages of tripe and arguments about how he could have raced better at corners or if his competition had better prep time, and listen to posters try and prove that what they say, is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and no matter what any counterargument is put forward, they will lose. All it takes is, well done on becoming an Olympic champion, you were the the best rider on the course, full stop.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's nice to come into a Olympic champions thread, and not have to read loads of pages of tripe and arguments about how he could have raced better at corners or if his competition had better prep time, and listen to posters try and prove that what they say, is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and no matter what any counterargument is put forward, they will lose. All it takes is, well done on becoming an Olympic champion, you were the the best rider on the course, full stop.

That's only because nobody comes in here with takes as "he was actually lucky because ...".
You can always scroll back a few pages and see how sincere the Amstel '21 situation was handled.

 

[Netserk]

It's nice to come into a Olympic champions thread, and not have to read loads of pages of tripe and arguments about how he could have raced better at corners or if his competition had better prep time, and listen to posters try and prove that what they say, is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and no matter what any counterargument is put forward, they will lose. All it takes is, well done on becoming an Olympic champion, you were the the best rider on the course, full stop.

To me, that sounds like Instagram comments.

 

[scribers]

I just assume I am right all of the time and I try not to encumber others with that reality

 

[hayneplane]

I think we can see that MTB is his strongest discipline and that his Road pedigree really helps him late in the race as you could see he had the strongest endurance.

I don’t see GC for his future especially given how insanely strong the top tier of riders currently are and to sacrifice all for that would be a waste.

 

[elguapo]

At his home team, Pidcock needs to prove that he is near Josh Tarling in ITT and could easily drop Bernal and CRod on Cat 1 or HC climbs, to continue the hype of future GT contender.

 

[scribers]

He is better as a one day rider but not a stagier. For whatever reason he doesn’t seem to recover stage to stage well enough to stand out.

Or just stay in mtb and keep winning everything. He pretty darned good in cross when mvp isn’t there

 

[Bolder]

I just assume I am right all of the time and I try not to encumber others with that reality

Unlike many on this forum.

 

[Penninepeddler]

At his home team, Pidcock needs to prove that he is near Josh Tarling in ITT and could easily drop Bernal and CRod on Cat 1 or HC climbs, to continue the hype of future GT contender.

If he was not British I guess it would be "easier" to give up on being a GT contender and focus on the classics. I.E. if he were Belgian, Dutch, Italian, Swiss, Danish or even maybe French!

Partially because of the media landscape and perception of stage racing vs classics in Britain.

In terms of men's cycling GB has:

GTs: 11x wins (Froome 4x, Wiggins 1x, Thomas 1x, Yates 1x, Geohagen Hart 1x)
Monuments: 4x wins (Simpson 3x, Cav 1x)

I believe that alongside Spain, Britain is the only bigger cycling nation with such a big disparity towards GTs. (ofc part of that is where Monuments take place so prestige of them there and how suited guys are as a result)

Of the top ~20 British road cyclists of all time? 18-19 of them were either GT guys, TT guys, sprinters or those who favoured stage racers.

And TdF dominates the landscape more than most "cycling" countries I feel... having lived in 3 of the main ~8 cycling countries in Europe.

 

[xo 1]

He is better as a one day rider but not a stagier. For whatever reason he doesn’t seem to recover stage to stage well enough to stand out.

Or just stay in mtb and keep winning everything. He pretty darned good in cross when mvp isn’t there

I love this perspective - instead of burdening Pidcock with complaints about what he can't do, I prefer to celebrate his talents.

INEOS acts as if having paid him top GC wages sprinkles pixie dust on his GC performance. We can infer from Unchained that Tom isn't well suited to be a domestique. He could be a great fit on a team that is aiming for stage wins. Given the lack of a top-shelf GC leader, INEOS should consider that pivot. I understand why that may be a difficult pill to swallow given Pidcock's salary, but he hasn't even put together a one-week performance that would make him an objectively strong candidate for GC success.

Final point, Daniel Benson reported in his Substack that INEOS is rumored to be considering letting Pidcock transfer his contract to another squad. Benson even suggested that INEOS could continue to pay part of Pidcock's salary (as INEOS evidently did with another rider). Truly a "What are we doing here?" scenario, and, in my view, yet more reason to believe INEOS may not be long for road cycling. Pidcock is near the bottom of the list of problems INEOS should be seeking to solve, in my view.

 

[Penninepeddler]

I love this perspective - instead of burdening Pidcock with complaints about what he can't do, I prefer to celebrate his talents.

INEOS acts as if having paid him top GC wages sprinkles pixie dust on his GC performance. We can infer from Unchained that Tom isn't well suited to be a domestique. He could be a great fit on a team that is aiming for stage wins. Given the lack of a top-shelf GC leader, INEOS should consider that pivot. I understand why that may be a difficult pill to swallow given Pidcock's salary, but he hasn't even put together a one-week performance that would make him an objectively strong candidate for GC success.

Final point, Daniel Benson reported in his Substack that INEOS is rumored to be considering letting Pidcock transfer his contract to another squad. Benson even suggested that INEOS could continue to pay part of Pidcock's salary (as INEOS evidently did with another rider). Truly a "What are we doing here?" scenario, and, in my view, yet more reason to believe INEOS may not be long for road cycling. Pidcock is near the bottom of the list of problems INEOS should be seeking to solve, in my view.

Another team would nice tbh. Also, right now Ineos have one of the worst classics teams in the peloton in terms of the "top" teams and in turn he has had basically no help in his Spring schedule often and still got good results.

Ofc, team-mates are usually less help in a classics race than a stage race... but the top classics teams usually use them decently and Tom has been 1 v 2-3 in a later group at times in classics he has raced.

Kwiatkowski is basically the only other "very good" classics guy... albeit De Plus can do a job. And Tarling ofc should one day be good in PR.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I mean, I also see his results in stage races and on long climbs not as a side effect of his MTB/CX training, but something that he does despite focussing a lot on explosive efforts in short, offroad one day races.

In the end he gets payed a lot to do what he does atm and as long as he enjoys offroad cycling more he'll probably keep doing it.

That said, I would like to see him race all kind of one day races + 1 gt (Tour) Rui Costa/Uran style (schedule wise) with a main focus on road racing in one non-olympic year.

 

[Kwaremonster]

It just seems that Pidcock is not worldclass on the road, the way he is in mountainbiking. I'm sure he is valuable for bikesponsors, they way mvdp is for canyon. I'm also sure he will always compete in the ardennesclassics and some grand tour stages, but he isn't worldclass in either. So I'm sure a lot of teams would sign him, just not for the salary he is on at Ineos, unless they or the bikesponsor pay a huge chunk of that.

 

[Taxus4a]

It just seems that Pidcock is not worldclass on the road, the way he is in mountainbiking. I'm sure he is valuable for bikesponsors, they way mvdp is for canyon. I'm also sure he will always compete in the ardennesclassics and some grand tour stages, but he isn't worldclass in either. So I'm sure a lot of teams would sign him, just not for the salary he is on at Ineos, unless they or the bikesponsor pay a huge chunk of that.

If you mean World class to beat Pogacar usually. No, he isnt.
For me yes, he is a World class, in almost any race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

At his home team, Pidcock needs to prove that he is near Josh Tarling in ITT and could easily drop Bernal and CRod on Cat 1 or HC climbs, to continue the hype of future GT contender.

He doesn't need to prove that. He just needs to change trainers or have his current trainer shut his yap about winning the TDF. Nobody at this point realistically expects that of him, yet his trainer has to bring it up in every interview that he thinks Pidcock can do so.

Maybe he should let him win a small stagerace first before continuing this line of reasoning. He isn't helping Pidcock in any way.

 

[Penninepeddler]

Might be a unpopular opinion but am I the only one who somewhat find Pidcock to be slightly overrated? Pidcock is more suited to the underwhelming competition in MTB. Road race there is simply many better horses than him in all major race least for now and up until now.

I mean, he might be the ~5th best classics rider right now when consider ability across the terrains.

One of the few riders in the pro peloton who "could" come top 10 in all 5 classics on his day.

But yeh, right now he suits the Ardennes classics most and Remco and Pogi are better there...

and in cobbled classics, while he is amongst best bike handlers in the world, and CAN come top ~10 in both with some luck... he does not quite have the "power" right now being under 60kg to contend.

Heck, Pogi is the only guy who can contend in Flanders who is under 70kg (I guess Teuns too, albeit cant win)... let alone under 60kg!

And at PR? Gianni Vermeersch is the only guy under 70kg who has came top 10 in recent years.

If I were him I would probably start the season a bit heavier, which would help in MSR for the sprint if in small group, and the cobbled classics... focus season on the Ardennes (I dont think a bit of extra muscle hurts there either tbh)... maybe go stage hunting in TdF... and then do fall classics. And ofc try and peak for Worlds in seasons it suits.

 

[Squire]

Might be a unpopular opinion but am I the only one who somewhat find Pidcock to be slightly overrated? Pidcock is more suited to the underwhelming competition in MTB. Road race there is simply many better horses than him in all major race least for now and up until now.

He did win the prestigious Most Overrated Rider on the Forum award after all...

... which I don't quite agree with.

Except for his coach, I don't see many people bigging him up to be something he isn't. Saying he is the best mountain-biker in the world is hardly controversial, and the general consensus when it comes to road cycling seems to be that he is a serious contender for most of the classics while having some limitations in stage racing. Which I think is accurate.

As for his potential if he focused solely on the road, it's hard to tell. He has been able to hang with everyone not named Pog or Vingegaard on some big climbs, so there's something there. But my own suspicion is that he might continue to be inconsistent and prone to bad days.

For him to be overrated, he'd need a lot of people to actually overrate him. And not just his coach.

 

[Strawberry_Jams]

Bretange Classic
Tour of Britain
GP Quebec & Montreal
+ (I assume) Road Worlds

added to his calendar on pcs. Not really sure where that's come from, but if true, seems exciting to finally have a proper end of season schedule for once, I hope this means full focus on the road from now on. It's time to finally see what he can do.

 

[Squire]

Bretange Classic
Tour of Britain
GP Quebec & Montreal
+ (I assume) Road Worlds

added to his calendar on pcs. Not really sure where that's come from, but if true, seems exciting to finally have a proper end of season schedule for once, I hope this means full focus on the road from now on. It's time to finally see what he can do.

I went looking, and couldn't find the source for that either. The North American MTB rounds are later in September, so a part of me is slightly worried he'll stay over there to compete in those. But he has a very decent shot at a rainbow jersey for once, so it would be weird and stupid not to do Zürich.

 

[Strawberry_Jams]

well he's also on the list for the mtb worlds as well. Maybe if it wasn't down the road from him and suited to him, he might have not bothered. But another chance for a rainbow jersey if he he's on his usual form. Last year he came 3rd in Andorra after just rocking up after not riding his bike post worlds celebrations - is the same true post Olympics?

 

[Sciatic]

Watching riders climb that 3 km block of concrete with 15% gradient at the Vuelta today left me thinking Pidcock should do the Vuelta sometime rather than Tour, and might give Ineos a chance for some decent stage results.

 

[mrgmyers]

Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems the British podcasters really cooled on discussing Pidders this year during the Tour. Did anyone else sense this? I wondered if it had to do with Pidders insistence that Steve Cummings be left off the Tour staff for Ineos.

Watching the documentary for last year it was clear to me that Pidcock does not like Cummings and had no intention of doing what Cummings said.
But his results do not appear to give him the right to do what he wants rather than what Cummings wants him to do. In my humble opinion he does not have a sufficiently impressive Palmares to act like billy big balls