Tommy D gets heckled

[Dear Wiggo]

If he doped from so early on in his career - could the years of doping have helped give him that 'big engine'?

Yes .

 

[sniper]

That's kinda true, but Danielson was having his balls squeezed when he sung. If he wasn't being squeezed he wouldn't have admitted and would be like all those other guys in the peloton who are 'praying' the closet door doesn't fly open.

this indeed.
he knew if he wouldn't sing his name would turn up in connection to doping anyway, so singing for usada at that point was a win-win for danielson in terms of carreer options.

We do know his stated motives to heckle him, though.

the point is that TD deserves to be heckled.
not whether Kalan deserves to heckle.

TD is the perfect bike racer. Big engine, not so big intellect.

and you know that how exactly? (see Sundayrider's point)

 

[Enrico Gimondi]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Tom's contract is up after the season. Does anyone know the details of this? And if it is up, does anyone know if Cannondale/Garmin will bring him back? I know he won Utah, but besides that his year wasn't too succesful. And I believe he'll be 37 next year

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Tom's contract is up after the season. Does anyone know the details of this? And if it is up, does anyone know if Cannondale/Garmin will bring him back? I know he won Utah, but besides that his year wasn't too succesful. And I believe he'll be 37 next year

By success, do you mean he did his work for the team most of the season? *Lots* of careers like this. I'm not arguing, just reminding the casual reader it's a team sport.

As for his age, 37 is the new 25. He'll be ready for a grand tour podium real soon. I mean that in every sense.

 

[Enrico Gimondi]

In regards to his success I was talking about his overall results. He's had 9 races this year I believe, with 3 DNF's and 1 DNS. And other than Utah and The US Pro Challenge he only cracked the Top 20 once. Let me say, that I'm in the minority and I'm actually a Danielson fan. So I hope he returns. I think he guy, even at 37, has a lot of talent but seems to buckle under pressure quite often. van Garderen even said after the Monarch Mountain stage he could see TD was getting nervous on that climb.

 

[blackcat]

i knew someone would dislike his "brasstown bald" blend. too much acid, too dark, too much alliteration

 

[TourOfTexas]

TommyD is such a little b****. He does the crime but can't handle some heckling that he deserved. If fans had more cajones, they'd heckle these dopers more often. The praise being lavished on Jens this weekend was eye roll worthy.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Tilford'a view seems to be quite flexible when it comes to dopers. It all comes down to whether he likes the rider or whether they paid their dues or whether they are part of the good ol' boys network.

Multiple tests from multiple teams have shown TD has a big engine. Mentally it seems he is down there with five year old girls and Wiggins.

Not just that. It is hard to ride all out when you are constantly looking for a portajon.

 

[Master50]

TD is just part of a small group of outed riders from the EPO age of cycling. So much evidence and testimony has revealed that the majority of top level teams had some form of organized doping, some measure of individual doping and at some level a very small segment of mostly clean pros floundering at the bottom. I think we agree that there are only a few of the riders from that era are outright named but in general we believe the real number is triple to all tour riders for example yet we are only calling out the guys that have taken their lumps albeit under threat of prosecution for perjury.
We are beating on these few but the greater peloton got a pass because we have our scapegoats. In a way these few are taking the load for a whole lot more riders of that era. Then of course is the current threads of current suspected doping teams. So I think it ridiculous to single out TD when it is just as likely the guy on the bike beside him is enjoying a pass yet is fully as guilty. Yes we know TD is a verified guilty rider but the wisdom says he is only 1 in 10 guilty riders that are carrying the cross for the rest. When are we going to move on? there are at least 100 others still in the peloton that are touched by the scourge of those years that are not being called out at the bike races. Is it just because these guys mostly carried bottles instead of seeking victory that we give them all a pass? Last point I get why TD deserves his cross but he is taking a beating for a lot of silent partners.

 

[Enrico Gimondi]

TD is just part of a small group of outed riders from the EPO age of cycling. So much evidence and testimony has revealed that the majority of top level teams had some form of organized doping, some measure of individual doping and at some level a very small segment of mostly clean pros floundering at the bottom. I think we agree that there are only a few of the riders from that era are outright named but in general we believe the real number is triple to all tour riders for example yet we are only calling out the guys that have taken their lumps albeit under threat of prosecution for perjury.
We are beating on these few but the greater peloton got a pass because we have our scapegoats. In a way these few are taking the load for a whole lot more riders of that era. Then of course is the current threads of current suspected doping teams. So I think it ridiculous to single out TD when it is just as likely the guy on the bike beside him is enjoying a pass yet is fully as guilty. Yes we know TD is a verified guilty rider but the wisdom says he is only 1 in 10 guilty riders that are carrying the cross for the rest. When are we going to move on? there are at least 100 others still in the peloton that are touched by the scourge of those years that are not being called out at the bike races. Is it just because these guys mostly carried bottles instead of seeking victory that we give them all a pass? Last point I get why TD deserves his cross but he is taking a beating for a lot of silent partners.

i completely agree

 

[IzzyStradlin]

So I think it ridiculous to single out TD when it is just as likely the guy on the bike beside him is enjoying a pass yet is fully as guilty.

Not everybody gets to roll around his hometown race like a conquering hero. The people heckling are the people he doped to beat as an amateur.

Tommy deserves everything he gets. And let's be honest, he didn't admit to sh!t.

And please, name a "guy on the bike beside him" that deserves our scorn. Equal opportunity for all!

 

[DirtyWorks]

When are we going to move on?

When the sport stops enabling doping, or something like that.

You are getting exactly what you want, the UCI always "moves on." As a result, another doping scandal replaces the last, and the sport reinforces its terrible reputation all over the world.

This "moving forward" excuse just buries the policies and practices that enabled the doping in the first place.

More of the dopers need to be heckled. They've earned it.

 

[sniper]

he gets angry for being called a doper, yet does so little to prove he's clean. where are his power profiles and BP data?

 

[yespatterns]

Wasnt JV pretty explicit awhile back on here about Tommy D's decent engine and serious mental fragility? I could have sworn he spoke quite a bit about it.

 

[sniper]

Wasnt JV pretty explicit awhile back on here about Tommy D's decent engine and serious mental fragility? I could have sworn he spoke quite a bit about it.

and?
10 chars

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

If he doped from so early on in his career - could the years of doping have helped give him that 'big engine'?

No........

 

[yespatterns]

....And I was just making a point that according to JV his engine was respectable, but mentally he was a wreck, which seemed up for debate in some of the previous posts. I'm not a Tommy D fan in the least and hopes he fades away, just trying to shed some light on the complexity of him as a rider.

 

[Master50]

When the sport stops enabling doping, or something like that.

You are getting exactly what you want, the UCI always "moves on." As a result, another doping scandal replaces the last, and the sport reinforces its terrible reputation all over the world.

This "moving forward" excuse just buries the policies and practices that enabled the doping in the first place.

More of the dopers need to be heckled. They've earned it.

Enabling? Institute max HCT limits because there is no EPO test. institute Passport because there is no test? Out of competition and whereabouts requirements. There is no other sport even remotely as aggressive against doping a s cycling but of course that is enabling. Other sports just say we are clean and avoid any investigation or reaction but Cycling is enabling doping? Each scandal has broken just another ring or method and yes we move on or we will miss the current trends instead of wasting time on 10 year old offences. I am frustrated by the ongoing positives but even more frustrated that no doping test proves a rider is clean, only that at the time of the test they did not find anything.
One place we better not go is a chaperone for the entire season. If a suspected rider was tested once a week for 2 years and still did not post a positive result there are many that would claim the tests were scheduled or the tester is paid off, etc.
Then there is the can't find out how but they can only win by cheating crowd. This is not proof Sky is doping.
I might think you had a good point the day I read how FIS or FIFA have instituted as aggressive protocols as cycling. Until the NFL is doing out of competition testing I think your point is weak.
I am not suggesting we should not be sceptical or lower the bar, just a little more credit for what is being done and that cycling is only a joke because we have not backed down. That we are not announcing a new positive test or a bio-passport sanction every week does not necessarily translate to not trying to catch the dopers it can just as likely translate to cleaner riders. Does Foxxy need to move in with CH for his faith to be restored? I suspect that would not be enough for him just cause he has such a hate on for the guy. I actually have a hard time understanding why they follow the sport given their cynicism. I used to watch wresting when I was a kid. I went to high school with Bret Hart and his sister Alison. Man was my world twisted when I figured out it was all entertainment. Never paid attention to the show after that (I was maybe 15 by then) I know how Bret went from skinny to buff and it did not matter as his was not a sport but a form of circus.
Then there is the biggest problem with anti doping. Prove a negative? No one can satisfy the "a clean test is not proof of a clean athlete" issue. do we just sanction every rider that "looks" dirty because he is going great?
Taken from my performance ability just about anyone cat 3 or higher is a cheater based solely on my ability?

 

[SundayRider]

No........

Long term effects of doping have been well documented.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Enabling? Institute max HCT limits because there is no EPO test.

Haha. Ok I think we were both around when this was going on and you seem to forget how vigorously Hein fought against it.

institute Passport because there is no test? Out of competition and whereabouts requirements. There is no other sport even remotely as aggressive against doping a s cycling but of course that is enabling.

Go UCI!! Too bad it didn't happen like that. At all. Cycling would be pretty great. Again, cycling was THE LAST federation to sign onto the WADA standard. If they didn't sign, it was no Olympics.

Let's ignore the ample opportunities for athletes to dope, ample opportunities for federations to hide doping, ample opportunities for NADO's to be used to never test positive and move forward.... to the next doping scandal that only reinforces the absurd levels of corruption in cycling.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Long term effects of doping have been well documented.

Yeah they destroy your health, not improving it... It doesn´t even need rocket science to find that out.

 

[zigmeister]

Are you saying it's ok to cheer for a guy who might be as much a doper as Tommy D(or any doper for that matter) but hasn't been caught or implicated.

Jens Voigt has received a lot of plaudits and cheers in Colorado this week, I would bet the only difference between Voigt and Tommy D is one actually admitted to doping.

Singling out those who have been caught is unfair when there is the real possibility that many of those not caught are no different.

The only exception in my book is Armstrong and like many others that is more related to the non-doping stuff. Pre cancer doper Armstrong I could deal with, Cancer Jesus Lance, not a hope.

Also ironic how a pro rider who would have likely once held the same view as the heckler is now a big fan of Tommy D.

Give us a Fu&*ing break with that garbage. GFTO and tells us how/when Voigt has ever, or was accused, or mentioned as a doper besides your post?

 

[yespatterns]

Give us a Fu&*ing break with that garbage. GFTO and tells us how/when Voigt has ever, or was accused, or mentioned as a doper besides your post?

I think Jens has doped and probably is still to some extent. Just my 0.02 as an example that PMCG isn't alone in that aspect of his opinion.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Give us a Fu&*ing break with that garbage. GFTO and tells us how/when Voigt has ever, or was accused, or mentioned as a doper besides your post?

How about TH?

I think Jens has doped and probably is still to some extent. Just my 0.02 as an example that PMCG isn't alone in that aspect of his opinion.

No he is not OFC. Am in the same boat. I guess Zilchmaster want to have a "phucking break" from us too then.

 

[pmcg76]

Give us a Fu&*ing break with that garbage. GFTO and tells us how/when Voigt has ever, or was accused, or mentioned as a doper besides your post?

Well that is my point really. How would anyone know that Voigt is any cleaner than Danielson, but fact is Voigt was a pro in the worst of the EPO era during the 90s.

Plus there are anecdotes about Voigt and doping. The first is the story of the rider who joked about burying the drugs by the side of the road during the 98 Tour. Voigt.

Secondly Jork Jaksche made a comment about Voigt which more or less implicated him as a doper. They were team-mates at CSC. I don't have the quotes to hand but I am sure there are a few posters who could back up what I posted.