Tommy D gets heckled

[sniper]

....And I was just making a point that according to JV his engine was respectable, but mentally he was a wreck, which seemed up for debate in some of the previous posts. I'm not a Tommy D fan in the least and hopes he fades away, just trying to shed some light on the complexity of him as a rider.

what else do you expect JV to say?
means zilk, unfortunately.

that he's an emotional wreck and not very bright might of course be true. There's no reason for JV and RR to lie about that.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Tommy D getting older, but still with a big engine.

 

[Energy Starr]

Yeah they destroy your health, not improving it... It doesn´t even need rocket science to find that out.

I think you and Sunday are disagreeing on the phrase "long term". Hate to speak for both of you (but will anyway). Sunday means once you have doped from ages 20-25 (for example) this will provide you a stronger base for ages 26-35. Foxxy, maybe you're talking about when you're 50-60 years old after having doped throughout a professional career in your 20's and 30's? You're both correct.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

I think you and Sunday are disagreeing on the phrase "long term".

It also depends how you define "benefit".

Does blood doping years ago give you a physiological benefit today? No, probably not.

Does blood doping years ago give you connections to teams and coaches and physiologists? Thousands of $$$ worth of equipment, disposable income, wealthy friends to come to your cycling camp while you are suspended, multiple homes? Second chances? 3rd Chances, 4th chances..... YES

Danielson might be talented. He might be clean now, but he gained A LOT from doping.

 

[Energy Starr]

It also depends how you define "benefit".

Does blood doping years ago give you a physiological benefit today? No, probably not.

Does blood doping years ago give you connections to teams and coaches and physiologists? Thousands of $$$ worth of equipment, disposable income, wealthy friends to come to your cycling camp while you are suspended, multiple homes? Second chances? 3rd Chances, 4th chances..... YES

Danielson might be talented. He might be clean now, but he gained A LOT from doping.

Yes, that too!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I think you and Sunday are disagreeing on the phrase "long term". Hate to speak for both of you (but will anyway). Sunday means once you have doped from ages 20-25 (for example) this will provide you a stronger base for ages 26-35. Foxxy, maybe you're talking about when you're 50-60 years old after having doped throughout a professional career in your 20's and 30's? You're both correct.

No I am talking about short term. Once you stop transfusing and taking the pills/injections the positive effect stops*. Like a painkiller effect stop when you don´t take them any more.

I mean really? Do we need scientific research if common sense is enough?

* Just have a look at ex-NFL linemen how they look compared to their active playing days. Night and day difference...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

It also depends how you define "benefit".

Does blood doping years ago give you a physiological benefit today? No, probably not.

Does blood doping years ago give you connections to teams and coaches and physiologists? Thousands of $$$ worth of equipment, disposable income, wealthy friends to come to your cycling camp while you are suspended, multiple homes? Second chances? 3rd Chances, 4th chances..... YES

Danielson might be talented. He might be clean now, but he gained A LOT from doping.

Fully agree.
But don´t forget the dopers who didn´t got caught: Not officially tainted, thus having better "worth"...

 

[westerner]

I have seen some study re the possible long term effects of steroid use, but not sure if anyone has does this with EPO, transfusion use etc. Common sense is to me when the xtra blood cells age and die and blood values go back normal state for the individual then the methods are not providing any more direct advantage. However... I saw a study somewhere (will look to see if i can find it) that a muscle cell lives 6 years. So if one is using EPO as a method to boost recovery and be able to train harder to make a better muscle cell with say more mitochondria would that not constitute a long term effect from a short lasting doping method? Anyone who trains and then has layoff knows its not like you have to come back from the state of a total beginner. There are some long term changes in the body that happen from hard training regardless of whether there is doping involved. So I do believe that doping during one part of ones career can give one a long term unfair advantage over athletes who have never doped. Of course we can only trust the former dopers at this point to provide their experiences and insight, and they all seem to say that the day after you stop doping you are just like back to clean!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You may have a point. OTOH, there are different examples. Ex roid users having destroyed their biological balance, growing tits, not producing testosterone anymore and else... Again, just have a look at ex NFL linemen.

I have yet to hear of any medicine that improves your performance or else once you stop taking it. Actually it´s the other way around. When you stop you feel the negative side effects (or even before).

I am no scientist, but logic thinking and common sense tell me: You can´t trick nature. If you destroyed your bio system with artifical blood building it surley don´t help you in the short and long term once you stop poisoning your body with Epo/chemical enhanced blood transfusions.

BTW, I trust JV a tousand timers more than that hypo Tilford. If he was so sure about TD, why didn´t he talked to officials before TD talked?
The same Tiford who says Horner is nice, and only begun to doubt him when he won the Vuelta.
Tilford knows nothing. A pretender who has favourites and enemies. A guy that hits on those laying down. What a ... you know.

 

[MarkvW]

You may have a point. OTOH, there are different examples. Ex roid users having destroyed their biological balance, growing tits, not producing testosterone anymore and else... Again, just have a look at ex NFL linemen.

I have yet to hear of any medicine that improves your performance or else once you stop taking it. Actually it´s the other way around. When you stop you feel the negative side effects (or even before).

I am no scientist, but logic thinking and common sense tell me: You can´t trick nature. If you destroyed your bio system with artifical blood building it surley don´t help you in the short and long term once you stop poisoning your body with Epo/chemical enhanced blood transfusions.

I'm not sure you're right. Some claim that the right doping / training regimen can elevate performance long after the doping stops.

 

[Master50]

Haha. Ok I think we were both around when this was going on and you seem to forget how vigorously Hein fought against it.




Go UCI!! Too bad it didn't happen like that. At all. Cycling would be pretty great. Again, cycling was THE LAST federation to sign onto the WADA standard. If they didn't sign, it was no Olympics.

Let's ignore the ample opportunities for athletes to dope, ample opportunities for federations to hide doping, ample opportunities for NADO's to be used to never test positive and move forward.... to the next doping scandal that only reinforces the absurd levels of corruption in cycling.

And my point is it has changed and is changing. Maybe they just need a couple of Foxxy's friends to go over to Switzerland and tune them up. Benotti? you in too?
I was just happy before pros went to the Olympics. We could go back to 2 week and 6 month suspensions for really bad doping. The amateurs could ride clean again since they can't afford the dope without the sponsor. In an atmosphere of growing and constant distain from the public that is demanding accountability even the most corrupt systems are bending. Operation Peurto was truly bout omertà but to protect the non cyclists. Any idea of the size of corruption in Football? Either one.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I'm not sure you're right. Some claim that the right doping / training regimen can elevate performance long after the doping stops.

OFC training improves your performance. I don´t doubt that a second.
And OFC Epo and else work for some time. But you don´t start with a 100% engine, take pills/injections/transfusions, and boom forever you are at 110%.
If anything, TD has hurt his chances with his ongoing doping in the past.

 

[Master50]

I'm not sure you're right. Some claim that the right doping / training regimen can elevate performance long after the doping stops.

From memory, many things that increase muscle mass or vascular growth can have longitudinal positive effect. Steriod abusers often maintain some advantage once their endocrine systems start to work on their own again. Whether EPO gives a benefit 2 years later? I am pretty sure there is a thread on this here in the clinic.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

From memory, many things that increase muscle mass or vascular growth can have longitudinal positive effect. Steriod abusers often maintain some advantage once their endocrine systems start to work on their own again. Whether EPO gives a benefit 2 years later? I am pretty sure there is a thread on this here in the clinic.

You know that from where?
I know a roid user who only 6 weeks after stopping declined. Plus he inherited major sex and health problems.
Those things don´t do you any good...

 

[Energy Starr]

OFC training improves your performance. I don´t doubt that a second.
And OFC Epo and else work for some time. But you don´t start with a 100% engine, take pills/injections/transfusions, and boom forever you are at 110%.
If anything, TD has hurt his chances with his ongoing doping in the past.

Doping in the past.....he stopped? Let me guess... 2006?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Doping in the past.....he stopped? Let me guess... 2006?

Yeah lets turn it into a joke thread...

 

[mewmewmew13]

the doping is one aspect..the way he's treated his 'wives' would prompt me to heckle him

 

[Energy Starr]

Yeah lets turn it into a joke thread...

It's Tommy D. It's a joke thread whether you want it or not.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

the doping is one aspect..the way he's treated his 'wives' would prompt me to heckle him

Personally, I feel someone's private life should be left that way.

What he has done to his wife is reprehensible and repulsive, no question, but I'd be the last person to heckle another for their actions that in no way affect me or mine.

I get someone heckling him as a pro cyclist if they are as well, but even then, you have to wonder what the point is. It doesn't achieve anything, and the person interviewed did not sound like it worked as therapy.

 

[Archibald]

ah, cool, we're back to Tommy D...

FiretrUCK him, he's a doper. Why whinge about a spectator, when you could rat out those not copping the sh*t you are? You know, share the load n all...

 

[V3R1T4S]

You know that from where?
I know a roid user who only 6 weeks after stopping declined. Plus he inherited major sex and health problems.
Those things don´t do you any good...

A 10 second Google search would have stopped your drivel: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080925072430.htm

"The researchers found that several years after anabolic steroid withdrawal, and with no or low current strength-training, the muscle fiber area intensity, the number of nuclei per fiber in the quadriceps was still comparable to that of athletes that were currently performing high intensity strength-training."

Many more like it.

Sure, heavy abuse of EPO (think 1990s level) can suppress natural levels for a time when stopped, but that's not thought to be the case in the 2000s and on micro-dosing era...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

A 10 second Google search would have stopped your drivel: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080925072430.htm

"The researchers found that several years after anabolic steroid withdrawal, and with no or low current strength-training, the muscle fiber area intensity, the number of nuclei per fiber in the quadriceps was still comparable to that of athletes that were currently performing high intensity strength-training."

Many more like it.

Sure, heavy abuse of EPO (think 1990s level) can suppress natural levels for a time when stopped, but that's not thought to be the case in the 2000s and on micro-dosing era...

Now I know why good ol Lyle Alzado stopped taking steroids. He took em all in the 70s thus being able for a comeback try in 1990 at age 40something. The drugs still had its positive effects on him.

... or Ben Johnson. All the lasting effects of his roids took him to another level in his comeback... not.

Oh my, outta here before the attackers like you get me another ban. Didn´t want to disturb all ya party here. Toxic place this clinic circus it became...

 

[djpbaltimore]

Personally, I feel someone's private life should be left that way.

What he has done to his wife is reprehensible and repulsive, no question, but I'd be the last person to heckle another for their actions that in no way affect me or mine.

I get someone heckling him as a pro cyclist if they are as well, but even then, you have to wonder what the point is. It doesn't achieve anything, and the person interviewed did not sound like it worked as therapy.

+1 to the whole post.

I wouldn't personally heckle a rider like TD, but for someone to do so is understandable to a degree.

 

[Granville57]

What he has done to his wife is reprehensible and repulsive, no question, but I'd be the last person to heckle another for their actions that in no way affect me or mine.

I agree in spirit, but I will add that Tommy D's infidelity has crossed the line a bit into the cycling arena when commentator Craig Hummer, in Utah, mistakenly mentioned a woman that Tommy was with as his "wife." His actual, soon-to-be-ex wife then Tweeted a response to this. Incidents like this tend to blur the lines somewhat in terms of public exposure of private matters.

the person interviewed did not sound like it worked as therapy.

Did I miss a link to this? Just curious.

 

[DirtyWorks]

And my point is it has changed and is changing.

Hmm... Changed how? Like Roman Krueziger not-positive-but-we're-going-to-tell-the-world-he-is? How about "the new sanction notification process is updating a document no one is supposed to find on our site." In the U.S. the same guy owns/operates the federation.

In an atmosphere of growing and constant distain from the public that is demanding accountability even the most corrupt systems are bending.

Yes, there's a long and detailed history of politely asking the UCI to change governance and their rapid response. Comparing the way the UCI operates today with a decade ago and it's so much better!! All the people and processes that have changed! All the transparency they introduced! It's all documented... It's here somewhere...

How do you know a system is changing when they report to no one? No statistics agree with WADA's, information to check the integrity of the sport is unavailable.

Please, don't try to shift the debate to other topics.