Top 5 super-domestique moments 2011

[karlboss]

I said *probably* in my sentence. You didn't know at the time what could have happened. But that was Voeckler best chance to finish in the podium, and he let it go.

Yep you said Voekler probably would have finished on the podium.
So you are saying that Rolland could have pulled and probably put Voekler on the podium infront of one can only assume Frank Schleck, who finished 14 seconds ahead of him at the finish, which would be an indication he was handling Cadel's pace best of everyone, just struggling to see how you are putting this together.

 

[auscyclefan94]

It's not a bull**** rumor. It's what he said.

But believe what you will. If Evans only got dropped because of a mechanical, though, and felt better on his spare bike, then how did Sanchez drop him AFTER the bike change? *does not follow*

Because firstly, Sanchez didn't follow the Contador who was really pushing the pace and continually accelerating like Evans was. Secondly, his break was rubbing and like Evans said, it was really sapping him and he was feeling average. Thirdly, Evans was chasing on the front by himself in some strong wind for quite a few km's on the steep section while Samu was sitting in the wheel the whole time (don't blame him) and then he accelerated away. Even when Samu initially rode away, Evans eventually came across but Samu's superior descending skills got him across the gap.

Rolland dropped Sanchez and Contador after both of those guys rode away from him in different stages of thats stage? Go figure!

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I don't blame Evans at all. They say a huge percentage of the game is psychological. If he felt something wasn't right, it didn't necessarily matter if he could place it, it's better to do something about it. Getting a new bike could easily have been a placebo effect, making him feel better about his equipment, and investigation of the original bike could have shown nothing wrong, but when you're in a "Tour: win or lose?" situation like that, it's better to be safe rather than sorry.

I don't blame him, either. Continuing on would have put him in a Voeckler-like situation, who ended up losing minutes and a podium spot. While Evans wouldn't have lost as much time, it could have cost him the title. Anyhow, I think it was a tactical mistake to follow Contador and Andy Schleck in the first place.

 

[Descender]

Froome at the Worlds.

Guy pulled for like 30 full kms at the front.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Because firstly, Sanchez didn't follow the Contador who was really pushing the pace and continually accelerating like Evans was. Secondly, his break was rubbing and like Evans said, it was really sapping him and he was feeling average. Thirdly, Evans was chasing on the front by himself in some strong wind for quite a few km's on the steep section while Samu was sitting in the wheel the whole time (don't blame him) and then he accelerated away. Even when Samu initially rode away, Evans eventually came across but Samu's superior descending skills got him across the gap.

Rolland dropped Sanchez and Contador after both of those guys rode away from him in different stages of thats stage? Go figure!

There is some merit to what you say, but Sanchez created quite a big gap. Not factoring in the descent. And did it again up Alpe d'Huez where he posted the fastest time. Faster than Contador and Rolland. I didn't know Evans admitted to feeling "average" after the bike change. Certainly, Contador and Andy had a harder time up front, while Evans had time to take things easier in the bunch initially.

Rolland was still relatively fresh, knew Alpe d'Huez like the back of his hand, and STILL posted a slower time than both Sanchez and Contador. That's hardly an argument.

 

[Ferminal]

I don't blame him, either. Continuing on would have put him in a Voeckler-like situation, who ended up losing minutes and a podium spot. While Evans wouldn't have lost as much time, it could have cost him the title. Anyhow, I think it was a tactical mistake to follow Contador and Andy Schleck in the first place.

I don't think he had a team which was strong enough to make him comfortable in that situation. Although if it goes pear shaped it's a lose-lose situation. Why be so silly to follow the attacks of the better climbers that early in the stage, or why be so silly to sit back and do nothing, expecting others to work for you. He ended up time trialing much of the climb anyway - probably better to do this 15-30s behind Contador/Andy as opposed to 1-2minutes behind them.

The main question is that if he didn't stop when he did, would he have blown up completely like the good old Evans. Both Telegraphe-Galibier and Lautaret-Galibier he rode perfectly at his limit as that's all that he could do in that situation. I think there still is a bit of a question mark if he can do this in say a 2007 PdB or Aubisque situation, unfortunately we didn't find out in the Tour due to the failings of the Schlecks in the Pyrenees.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I don't think he had a team which was strong enough to make him comfortable in that situation. Although if it goes pear shaped it's a lose-lose situation. Why be so silly to follow the attacks of the better climbers that early in the stage, or why be so silly to sit back and do nothing, expecting others to work for you. He ended up time trialing much of the climb anyway - probably better to do this 15-30s behind Contador/Andy as opposed to 1-2minutes behind them.

The main question is that if he didn't stop when he did, would he have blown up completely like the good old Evans. Both Telegraphe-Galibier and Lautaret-Galibier he rode perfectly at his limit as that's all that he could do in that situation. I think there still is a bit of a question mark if he can do this in say a 2007 PdB or Aubisque situation, unfortunately we didn't find out in the Tour due to the failings of the Schlecks in the Pyrenees.

All good points. I was considering his personality and characteristics as a rider, and more importantly the course with the very long descent from Galibier, which doesn't favor attackers, especially with the flat towards Alpe d'Huez, IMO. Also, he was in the group for a good while between Telegraphe and Galibier.

Evans hasn't changed a bit, IMO. I think we'll find out next year, though a 2007 PdB-like tactical mistake may not cost him the title like it did back then.

 

[auscyclefan94]

There is some merit to what you say, but Sanchez created quite a big gap. Not factoring in the descent. And did it again up Alpe d'Huez where he posted the fastest time. Faster than Contador and Rolland. I didn't know Evans admitted to feeling "average" after the bike change. Certainly, Contador and Andy had a harder time up front, while Evans had time to take things easier in the bunch initially.

Rolland was still relatively fresh, knew Alpe d'Huez like the back of his hand, and STILL posted a slower time than both Sanchez and Contador. That's hardly an argument.

I disagree with the premise that Andy had a harder time than Evans. Take a look at the percentage of time the graphic shows near the top of the Galibier of how much time each rider is doing on the front. Contador is on something like 78%, the others were in the single digits and Andy was in the teens. Andy was mostly sitting in Contador's V8 Ferrari getting a comfy ride.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I disagree with the premise that Andy had a harder time than Evans. Take a look at the percentage of time the graphic shows near the top of the Galibier of how much time each rider is doing on the front. Contador is on something like 78%, the others were in the single digits and Andy was in the teens. Andy was mostly sitting in Contador's V8 Ferrari getting a comfy ride.

What graphic? Could you post it here?

I must have missed it.

 

[auscyclefan94]

What graphic? Could you post it here?

I must have missed it.

I'll do it in 10 hours for you once I get the actual percentages. I have it both recorde on my tv and on the tdf highlights packages.

 

[The Hitch]

I disagree with the premise that Andy had a harder time than Evans. Take a look at the percentage of time the graphic shows near the top of the Galibier of how much time each rider is doing on the front. Contador is on something like 78%, the others were in the single digits and Andy was in the teens. Andy was mostly sitting in Contador's V8 Ferrari getting a comfy ride.

There is a huge difference between sitting behind 1 rider and sitting in a peloton.

Especially up lesser gradients like on Galibier.

And in the peloton they rode up the climb slower using up less energy.

Contador and Andy meanwhile were going at a pace they would not be able to maintain. So after the telegraph they started going slower on Galibier and on the descents and flats and eventually got caught.

But you save a lot more energy by going say 50% the whole time, rather than doing 80% for half an hour, then being forced to go down to 30% because you cant handle it any more.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I'll do it in 10 hours for you once I get the actual percentages. I have it both recorde on my tv and on the tdf highlights packages.

Much appreciated.

 

[El Pistolero]

Jelle Vanendert was the best domestique this year, no doubt about that. He was a key factor in ALL of Gilbert's wins(except GP Wallonie and GP Québec)

 

[El Pistolero]

By winning I think he automatically disqualified himself from this competition... this is not what a superdomestique is supposed to do (certainly the "make your team leader crack" part).

My vote for best superdom goes to Björn Leukemans, Philippe Gilbert's most trusted domestique. Always cooperates, never wins.

Who does win in Gilbert his races?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Jelle Vanendert was the best domestique this year, no doubt about that. He was a key factor in ALL of Gilbert's wins(except GP Wallonie and GP Québec)

And Fleche Wallonne. Gilbert agrees.

 

[El Pistolero]

And Fleche Wallonne. Gilbert agrees.

Actually, it was his team mates that told Gilbert he should try and win Wallonne because Phil wasn't motivated for the race(he was sitting in the back for most of the race). Lotto also did some work in the final kms.

Read up on some of his interviews that were given right after his Fleche Wallonne win.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Actually, it was his team mates that told Gilbert he should try and win Wallonne because Phil wasn't motivated for the race(he was sitting in the back for most of the race). Lotto also did some work in the final kms.

Read up on some of his interviews that were given right after his Fleche Wallonne win.

I was aware, but Phil still thinks of it as a more or less individual win. Vanendert may have motivated him, but didn't do much else. Had some bad luck in the last k. Yes, he was very strong. I guess he was supposed to be Phil's "leadout man," but that didn't really pan out.

 

[El Pistolero]

I was aware, but Phil still thinks of it as a more or less individual win. Vanendert may have motivated him, but didn't do much else. Had some bad luck in the last k. Yes, he was very strong. I guess he was supposed to be Phil's "leadout man," but that didn't really pan out.

Domestiques also help you mentally. Good ones at least.

 

[crapna]

Sidiman Nibali for Sagan in Tour de Pologne

and also:

Farrar and Hushovd for Cancellara in RVV

 

[Parrulo]

Sidiman Nibali for Sagan in Tour de Pologne

ya we really forgot that one. it was nice to see one of the big boys working for a team mate and he did a tremendous job on the 2 tough stages for sagan

 

[greenedge]

I think Hayman and Geraint worked their buts off for sky. We saw on a few stages at the TDF Geraint looked to be pulling away from the selection of sprinters even though he was lead out. Hayman worked had at P-R and also at GDL

 

[auscyclefan94]

Much appreciated.

Can't find my highlights disc but I have it recorded so will have the work break down for you soon.