Tour 2012: Route Rumours / Our wishes

[Bavarianrider]

No cobbles in Tournai I'm afraid

There's some hills around there, but I doubt they'll use them.

Oh thanks, well would have been to good to be true.

 

[The Hitch]

Except Chris Froome will suddenly discover the ability to sit on the front and pace the péloton for 180km to set up the sprint for two weeks then climb better than Contador in the two stages that matter, and time trial better than Cancellara (again).
.

Yeah we get it, you think Froome is clinic.

At least now they've moved the Tour de Pologne I might be able to watch that instead for one third of this crapfest

Write a letter detailing what climbs you think TDP should have next year, and why it might help attract top climbers who have done the Giro instead and I will translate it for you so that you can mail it to Czeslaw Lang.

 

[Lupetto]

Anyone familiar with the area of stage 3 and 4. Is there a chance for some significant cobles?

Rumours state, that this finish will be used for stage 3.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

That's a bold prediction. I'm going to give this route the benefit of the doubt because I realize something has to be done about 95% of mountain stages becoming a 5-km showdown.

The easiest way to fix that is to give Contador a five minute penalty at the start of every race.

And anyway, at this year's Tour, the two best climbers in the world attacked way out on the two main mountain stages. That doesn't seem to me to need much fixing.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

It's actually reasonably important that there be a constant and loud chorus of fan disapproval if you want it to sink in over at ASO head office that nobody wants this kind of dullness.

Not because anyone with decision making power is likely to be reading any given internet discussion but because unremitting hostility on blogs and message boards will be reflected in the cycling media. The story becomes not "ASO unveil new route" but instead "ASO unveil new route to fan anger".

If that irritates or bores you, fair enough, but I'd prepare to be bored and/or irritated all the way from now until the 2013 course is announced if I were you.

I think the fan anger angle is almost as delusional as the idea you rightly mock, that the ASO would give a flying monkey what anyone on this board thinks.

They design routes to keep the result tight, so they can sell an 'exciting' angle to 1 race a year fans. This particular route is only 1 MTF short of the recent standard, but has some good TTs to actually ensure those stages are raced hard. We normally only get 2 MTFs raced properly anyway.

 

[The Hitch]

Well looking at this route, I'm thinking Contador may try and go for the Giro-Tour double again.

No chance. This route does still suit him, and his itt would suffer if he had to do Giau, and Tonnale, Aprica Mortirolo Stelvio.

 

[roundabout]

That's a bold prediction. I'm going to give this route the benefit of the doubt because I realize something has to be done about 95% of mountain stages becoming a 5-km showdown.

Yeah, in the era where there's less difference between top riders and their helpers that will definitely work.

The only good thing about this route is that it will forever shut up the people who think Pau-like stages do not work only because climbers lack the incentive to do something.

Bellegarde and Foix stages are absolute crap even if I was one of the people who thought that Grand Colombier and Biche should be in the Tour.

But I like the wishful thinking about this route especially over in the Iberian peninsula.

 

[The Hitch]

He should just be thankful that 38km isn't a TTT. Although will Saxobank be allowed to ride if they can't field a full 9 man team?

He should be thankful his rivals arent given a headstart over him again?

 

[hrotha]

The easiest way to fix that is to give Contador a five minute penalty at the start of every race.

And anyway, at this year's Tour, the two best climbers in the world attacked way out on the two main mountain stages. That doesn't seem to me to need much fixing.

Contador's attack was an anomaly. Normally he wouldn't be so out of the picture he'd decide to do something epic or die trying, so using something like that to praise the course is rather odd. Andy attacked exactly once, because that was how many times he thought he needed to attack. A course like this would definitely force him to attack more.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I think the fan anger angle is almost as delusional as the idea you rightly mock, that the ASO would give a flying monkey what anyone on this board thinks

As you should really be aware, TV audiences are lower for Time Trials than for climbing stages, which means that angle is already pretty well covered. Those one race a year fans aren't stupid enough to tune in for guaranteed boredom. And that's been the primary driver of the trend towards climbing friendly rather than time trial heavy parcours.

Making sure that the ASO is aware that everyone who watches more than one race a year also disapproves is certainly secondary to that hard reality, but it doesn't hurt to make sure that there is absolutely no way to spin the route as popular with anybody bar a few entirely one-eyed British and Australian fans.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Why is everybody taljing about Contador. the guy won't be anywhere the next 2 years.

 

[hrotha]

Yeah, in the era where there's less difference between top riders and their helpers that will definitely work.

The only good thing about this route is that it will forever shut up the people who think Pau-like stages do not work only because climbers lack the incentive to do something.

Bellegarde and Foix stages are absolute crap even if I was one of the people who thought that Grand Colombier and Biche should be in the Tour.

But I like the wishful thinking about this route especially over in the Iberian peninsula.

I think changing the route is worth a try. Worst case scenario, we get a boring TdF. Oooh, never had one of those before.

To the bolded part: the hell are you talking about?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

He should be thankful his rivals arent given a headstart over him again?

No one forced him to sign for an underfunded team, he had plenty of options.

N.b. I've just checked the 2010 result - Wiggins put 2 minutes in to him, starting only 30 mins earlier so not getting the wind benefit Tony & Fab got.

Not Bertie's finest year, clearly, but not Brad's either.

 

[roundabout]

I think changing the route is worth a try. Worst case scenario, we get a boring TdF. Oooh, never had one of those before.

To the bolded part: the hell are you talking about?

You and Descender. APM they think it's a good route. Anyone else I missed?

What the hell am I talking about indeed...

And this is changing the route for the sake of changing the route. Too little mountains that matter and too much TT for those mountains is certainly worth a try.

 

[Rocksteady]

Garmins going to easily get their top ten this year. Maybe Millar or DZ if the stick with the "someone new every year" thing, though this course looks great for VDV.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I think changing the route is worth a try. Worst case scenario, we get a boring TdF. Oooh, never had one of those before.

To the bolded part: the hell are you talking about?

You, I assumed.

But I agree - this year demonstrated perfectly well that climbers will attack in a foolish manner if they really feel the need to make up serious time, and 96km of TT will make some climbers really feel the need to make up serious time.

 

[Bavarianrider]

You and Descender. APM they think it's a good route. Anyone else I missed?

What the hell am I talking about indeed...

I think it's an pretty good route. The best since 07. The first TT should be 10km longer though. Prologue is also 2km too short

 

[The Hitch]

The easiest way to fix that is to give Contador a five minute penalty at the start of every race.

And anyway, at this year's Tour, the two best climbers in the world attacked way out on the two main mountain stages. That doesn't seem to me to need much fixing.

3 best climbers.

Iozard, Telegraphe and Tourmalet descent

 

[jens_attacks]

Garmins going to easily get their top ten this year. Maybe Millar or DZ if the stick with the "someone new every year" thing, though this course looks great for VDV.

this time they will enter in the top ten with thomas dekker.i'll put my car on it

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I think it's an pretty good route. The best since 07. The first TT should be 10km longer though. Prologue is also 2km too short

Come on, don't start trolling.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Contador's attack was an anomaly. Normally he wouldn't be so out of the picture he'd decide to do something epic or die trying, so using something like that to praise the course is rather odd. Andy attacked exactly once, because that was how many times he thought he needed to attack. A course like this would definitely force him to attack more.

A course like this wouldn't force Schleck to attack more, it would simply guarantee that whether he makes one attack or ten attacks, he wouldn't be a real contender.

Climbers who have a chance of winning don't attack on the penultimate climb very often because it's suicide in the age of super-focused teams and relatively equal abilities. If you go off the front early, your rivals stick their whole team on the front and squish you like a bug. That has to do with greater professionalism and organisation, not incentives.

Climbers who have already been eliminated from the overall by time trialling can attack early and get away with it, but only because nobody bothers to counter them with the full team press. The most you'd achieve with this sort of parcours is to turn pretty much every specialist climber into this sort of GC irrelevance.

This year's Tour actually saw more attacking by GC-relevant climbers than I would expect from next years, because there won't be any GC-relevant climbers unless Contador is there. We already have the climbers who can't TT at all to do that sort of thing, the Nieves and Martins of this world, what this will achieve is to reclassify the climbers to can TT a bit with those guys who can't TT at all as GC no hopers.

 

[hrotha]

You and Descender. APM they think it's a good route. Anyone else I missed?

What the hell am I talking about indeed...

And this is changing the route for the sake of changing the route. Too little mountains that matter and too much TT for those mountains is certainly worth a try.

The thing is, I fail to see the relevance of our being Iberian.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

The thing is, I fail to see the relevance of our being Iberian.

A classification doesn't have to be germane to be useful.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Come on, don't start trolling.

I am as serious as it gets.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I think it's a great situation. There's the Giro for the southeners who like their small, light pure climbers.

There's the Tour for the Northenern Euors Americans and Aussies who like the roleur types more. So everyone gets his share and a GT he or she likes.