Tour 2012. Who is your money on.

[Mambo95]

And it's all well and good pointing out the underperformances of Antón, Rodríguez and Nibali, but most people would have considered you mad for suggesting Froome would finish ahead of Kessiakoff, Martin, Monfort or Fuglsang before the race started.

Of those four only Monfort had finished higher in a GT than Froome's 35th in the '09 Giro. The other three had no real GT record to speak of.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Of those four only Monfort had finished higher in a GT than Froome's 35th in the '09 Giro. The other three had no real GT record to speak of.

Not in GTs, but they did have some results in shorter stage races to point to, which Froome did not. Froome was so out of left field it was incredible. Fuglsang had at least climbed with the best at the '09 Dauphiné, whereas Kessiakoff had just won the Österreichrundfahrt against an OK but not stellar field. Froome had not shown anything like this. Fuglsang, Kessiakoff and Martin were all riders that people had shown an interest in how they could go, meaning there was some expectation that they might be good. If you were there commenting on what Chris Froome could potentially do, then by all means point me to those posts. But I don't recall anybody stating that Froome was a possibility for a top 10, even top 20 until after the Covatilla stage. There was nothing distinguishing his prospects as a stage racer from those of Miguel Minguez, Mathieu Perget and Francis de Greef, and less than Kevin de Weert, Kevin Seeldraeyers or Jan Bakelandts.

Chris Froome in the Vuelta was easily the biggest shock performance of the season.

 

[The Hitch]

Chris Froome in the Vuelta was easily the biggest shock performance of the season.

Voeckler at the Tour. The guy is in his 30's not 20's.

 

[Mambo95]

Not in GTs, but they did have some results in shorter stage races to point to, which Froome did not. Froome was so out of left field it was incredible. Fuglsang had at least climbed with the best at the '09 Dauphiné, whereas Kessiakoff had just won the Österreichrundfahrt against an OK but not stellar field. Froome had not shown anything like this. Fuglsang, Kessiakoff and Martin were all riders that people had shown an interest in how they could go, meaning there was some expectation that they might be good. If you were there commenting on what Chris Froome could potentially do, then by all means point me to those posts. But I don't recall anybody stating that Froome was a possibility for a top 10, even top 20 until after the Covatilla stage. There was nothing distinguishing his prospects as a stage racer from those of Miguel Minguez, Mathieu Perget and Francis de Greef, and less than Kevin de Weert, Kevin Seeldraeyers or Jan Bakelandts.

Chris Froome in the Vuelta was easily the biggest shock performance of the season.

They may have shown sporadic form on occasions, but no indictation they could hold it together for three weeks. Martin, for one, is notoriously inconsistent. It what was a surprise to see any of them up there really.

Had the big names lived up to their billing, as usually happens, and Froome had been 6th or 7th, he would have just joined a long list of unusual and unexpected Vuelta top tens.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Voeckler at the Tour. The guy is in his 30's not 20's.

so how is that more surpring? you are better in your 30s then in your 20s. voeckler this year reminded me of vino's breakthrough tour of 2003. I think he will be a concistant gt factor from now on

 

[maltiv]

so how is that more surpring? you are better in your 30s then in your 20s. voeckler this year reminded me of vino's breakthrough tour of 2003. I think he will be a concistant gt factor from now on

Because it's more surprising to have a sudden improvement in your 30s than in your 20s...A young talent improving is very common, a 30 year old suddenly finding the ability to climb with the best is not common at all.

 

[theyoungest]

so how is that more surpring? you are better in your 30s then in your 20s. voeckler this year reminded me of vino's breakthrough tour of 2003. I think he will be a concistant gt factor from now on

I don't. He got the yellow jersey plus a 4 minutes headstart, and did very well in trying to defend it. But this is a guy who thrives on pride and honour, and it doesn't get much better for a proud Frenchman than having the maillot jaune on your shoulders. We saw that the last time when he wore the jersey. He'll be a class below without it.

 

[hrotha]

so how is that more surpring? you are better in your 30s then in your 20s. voeckler this year reminded me of vino's breakthrough tour of 2003. I think he will be a concistant gt factor from now on

It's more surprising because Voeckler had had more seasnons to show he wasn't GT material. Vino, who turned pro pretty late, had already been top 20 in 2000 and 2001.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Because it's more surprising to have a sudden improvement in your 30s than in your 20s...A young talent improving is very common, a 30 year old suddenly finding the ability to climb with the best is not common at all.

Voeckler proved in 04 he could climb if he really wanted to.. Didn't find his performance out of the world this year tbh...

 

[maltiv]

Voeckler proved in 04 he could climb if he really wanted to.. Didn't find his performance out of the world this year tbh...

He still climbed Plateau de Beille 5 minutes faster this year than he did back then, with equal motivation (yellow jersey). Riding at one's own pace to finish in the top 25 in mountain stages isn't exactly the same as covering all attacks and finishing in the front group...

 

[just some guy]

Voeckler proved in 04 he could climb if he really wanted to.. Didn't find his performance out of the world this year tbh...

In the 2 years where he found himself in Yellow he defended the jersey well, this year maybe a little too well - but I agree not so strange.

Especially when you consider what his role in other years was,

Stage win or Yellow if Lucky. To get a stage win - get in a break medium mth stage and be in a break with no GC guys. If Tommy does not lose time early he does not get let go.

So as GC TV rider we can only look at 2004 and 2011 -

Other years we had Stage hunter TV different rider

 

[jens_attacks]

voeckler's case was a matter of big heart and nitroglycerin,that's what i respect the most in pro cycling
if not for the kamikaze telegraphe big ring and the idea "fucc'em,i can beat both schleck and contador,je suis un francais dans le maillot jaune,nobody can drop me" he would have been the tour 2011 winner easily.but it was a legendary ride nonetheless,he inspired millions.also breaking on the hairpins of plateau de beille uphill,chapeau!
europcar will be again a major factor in the 2012 tour.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I agree regarding Europcar. They could send a team with a few riders who could put a mark on the TDF like Voeckler, Rolland and Kern (based on his performances in Critérium du Dauphiné and his very convincing national ITT title.) and backup riders like Charteau and Gautier.

 

[will10]

voeckler's case was a matter of big heart and nitroglycerin,that's what i respect the most in pro cycling
if not for the kamikaze telegraphe big ring and the idea "fucc'em,i can beat both schleck and contador,je suis un francais dans le maillot jaune,nobody can drop me" he would have been the tour 2011 winner easily.but it was a legendary ride nonetheless,he inspired millions.also breaking on the hairpins of plateau de beille uphill,chapeau!
europcar will be again a major factor in the 2012 tour.

The Green Train is one of my overwhelming memories of this Tour, and not in a good way. Always thought Bernadeau was one of the good guys, how wrong I was.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

go to clinic with your nonsense

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

The Green Train is one of my overwhelming memories of this Tour, and not in a good way. Always thought Bernadeau was one of the good guys, how wrong I was.

thats mean

 

[The Hitch]

The Green Train is one of my overwhelming memories of this Tour, and not in a good way. Always thought Bernadeau was one of the good guys, how wrong I was.

You were defending Frank Schleck from charges of doping last week because connections with Fuentes apparently arent proof of doping, apparently. Today we find out that riding up a mountain faster than expected, however, is.

 

[El Pistolero]

You were defending Frank Schleck from charges of doping last week because connections with Fuentes apparently arent proof of doping, apparently. Today we find out that riding up a mountain faster than expected, however, is.

Slower than expected you mean, compared to previous years.

 

[The Hitch]

Slower than expected you mean, compared to previous years.

No I meant faster.

I thought Voeckler rode faster than expected on the mountain stages of this years Tour?

If you think he rode slower, I do wonder what expectations you had.

 

[El Pistolero]

No I meant faster.

I thought Voeckler rode faster than expected on the mountain stages of this years Tour?

If you think he rode slower, I do wonder what expectations you had.

Not him, but on average they rode a lot slower in the mountains compared to previous years which could explain why Voeckler all of sudden was in front on the mountain stages. He was faster, but he was also having his best season so far even before the Tour started.

I certainly don't believe Voeckler only started doping this year.

I'm agreeing with you here. I haven't seen doped up performances this year at the Tour(that doesn't mean all were clean of course). I wasn't even impressed by the Green train, it's just the other teams besides Leotard that were absolutely crap in the mountains.

When Contador returns next year(or if) at the Tour, you'll see how easy it is to get rid of Voeckler. We already saw that actually because he got easily dropped at the Alpe Dhuez stage by Contador.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

No I meant faster.

I thought Voeckler rode faster than expected on the mountain stages of this years Tour?

If you think he rode slower, I do wonder what expectations you had.

they climbed slower then ever the mountains of the tdf this year. another proove cycling is clean

 

[Francois the Postman]

A general reminder that the pro-road cycling section is dope-chat-free. Take the who was and wasn't speculation elsewhere guys.

 

[maltiv]

Not him, but on average they rode a lot slower in the mountains compared to previous years which could explain why Voeckler all of sudden was in front on the mountain stages. He was faster, but he was also having his best season so far even before the Tour started.

I certainly don't believe Voeckler only started doping this year.

I'm agreeing with you here. I haven't seen doped up performances this year at the Tour(that doesn't mean all were clean of course). I wasn't even impressed by the Green train, it's just the other teams besides Leotard that were absolutely crap in the mountains.

When Contador returns next year(or if) at the Tour, you'll see how easy it is to get rid of Voeckler. We already saw that actually because he got easily dropped at the Alpe Dhuez stage by Contador.

Easy? Yeah, all you need to get rid of Voeckler is a long-lasting kamikaze attack from the best climber in the world

 

[El Pistolero]

Easy? Yeah, all you need to get rid of Voeckler is a long-lasting kamikaze attack from the best climber in the world

He got dropped pretty fast though

 

[Angliru]

so how is that more surpring? you are better in your 30s then in your 20s. voeckler this year reminded me of vino's breakthrough tour of 2003. I think he will be a concistant gt factor from now on

Even Voeckler has said that he is not a contender for gc at the Tour. How he was able to climb the way he did in the latter stages of the Tour is a mystery. It was attributed to his working extensively on his climbing, a loss of weight and maturity. He had shown progress in some of weeklong stage races this year though.

I can't see him being a consistent gt factor at the Tour, especially in a Tour where many of the contenders haven't crashed out. The best he can do is get in a break and gain time and fight to keep it as he did this year. His rope will definitely be a lot shorter though after his display at this year's Tour.