Tour de France 2013

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Indeed, but that schedule had it on 14/07...where was that confirmed?

http://www.ventoux-magazine.com

 

[webvan]

Thanks, well that takes care of the posted schedule then...

 

[Ferminal]

It means probably an extra stage around Gap, maybe that is the time trial.

I'll go with something like Gap - Embrun with Izoard 50km from the finish

 

[airstream]

It may be accumulated differently, but a stage like 2011 Giro '15 is still tougher than 90km then Joux-Plane + Morzine-Avoriaz. The greater fatigue level of racing hard in the Tour is compensated for by the far, far, far greater fatigue level when that stage is taken in isolation.

There have been countless stages in the Tour's history way, way harder than a Joux-Plane - Morzine double. To suggest that because the Tour accumulates fatigue differently to the Giro that this stage is too hard is only evidence of how far cycling has sunk. Soon you'll be campaigning that Mont Ventoux is too hard unless we only have 50km flat before it, or that L'Alpe d'Huez is too hard. The Tour's legends built their names over massive multi-mountain stages, and it's only fair that in order to be seen on the same level, the present and future legends build theirs in the same way.

The thing is what's the use of looking into climbs and stages isolately without thinking about riders? For this, we have sites of salite and others which rate climbs quite impartially. Stage 15 of the Giro 2011 was bloody hard, but in point of fact it contained minimum of intrigueand 0 moments when some fan could think 'oh, it can really shake GC in some way'. Ridiculous Nibali's attack could cause nothing but gloomy smile. Yes, on Gardeccia they were going in single file and this was spectacular, but by and large enjoyment for watching that stage was quite comparable to enjoyment from having a look at the stage profile. Sure, no one can exclude anything and we can get a dead mountain stage on any climb. I mean that everything we've seen for the last 2-3 years, imo, should have taught there's no boundary between parcours that gives exciting racing and the other parcours that doen't. Surely, we are not saying about extreme cases like the 2009 Tour Pyrenees. And hence some reasonings kinda 'if there are no 3 proper climbs on the last 60 k and it's shorter than 200-200km, it's not a proper mountain stage' is a bit thick.

 

[Eshnar]

'oh, it can really shake GC in some way'.

it actually did. Only AC was not in danger.

 

[Netserk]

it actually did. Only AC was not in danger.

+1

One just have to look at Anton's placing in the GC before and after.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The thing is what's the use of looking into climbs and stages isolately without thinking about riders? For this, we have sites of salite and others which rate climbs quite impartially. Stage 15 of the Giro 2011 was bloody hard, but in point of fact it contained minimum of intrigueand 0 moments when some fan could think 'oh, it can really shake GC in some way'. Ridiculous Nibali's attack could cause nothing but gloomy smile. Yes, on Gardeccia they were going in single file and this was spectacular, but by and large enjoyment for watching that stage was quite comparable to enjoyment from having a look at the stage profile. Sure, no one can exclude anything and we can get a dead mountain stage on any climb. I mean that everything we've seen for the last 2-3 years, imo, should have taught there's no boundary between parcours that gives exciting racing and the other parcours that doen't. Surely, we are not saying about extreme cases like the 2009 Tour Pyrenees. And hence some reasonings kinda 'if there are no 3 proper climbs on the last 60 k and it's shorter than 200-200km, it's not a proper mountain stage' is a bit thick.

Whether you think about the climbs in isolation OR you take the riders into account, Joux-Plane + Morzine-Avoriaz is not too tough for the Tour de France, nor will it ever be.

 

[Linkinito]

http://www.ledauphine.com/hautes-alpes/2012/09/28/le-tour-de-france-se-dessine

Vaison-la-Romaine - Gap stage copy-pasted from 2011 stage with Manse (No Moissière, boo!) and the "Armstrong descent".
No more MTT to Semnoz on July 20, but a difficult ITT (definitely not flat) between Embrun and Chorges on July 17 near the Serre-Ponçon lake.
Double ADH with Sarenne confirmed (again) on July 18.

So we would have:
- July 14: Givors - Mont Ventoux (233km) MTF
- July 15: Rest day
- July 16: Vaison-la-Romaine - Gap (~160km)
- July 17: Embrun - Chorges (~30km) ITT
- July 18: Gap - L'Alpe d'Huez (~160km) MTF
- July 19: Bourg-d'Oisans - Le Grand Bornand (~200km?)
- July 20: Stage around Annecy, possible MTF with Glières
- July 21: ? - Paris Champs-Élysées (100km)

 

[webvan]

http://www.ledauphine.com/hautes-alpes/2012/09/28/le-tour-de-france-se-dessine

- July 18: Gap - L'Alpe d'Huez (~160km) MTF

They mention the climb up to Sarenne (1999m) after the first Alpe Climb then back to Bourg d’Oisans and second Alpe climb. Not too sure about that dual Alpe climb, it's a fairly recent climb and it's nowhere as epic as it was when they went up in the mid-70s on an uneven road. Guess it's got good marketing appeal for the less informed ;-)

 

[Linkinito]

They mention the climb up to Sarenne (1999m) after the first Alpe Climb then back to Bourg d’Oisans and second Alpe climb. Not too sure about that dual Alpe climb, it's a fairly recent climb and it's nowhere as epic as it was when they went up in the mid-70s on an uneven road. Guess it's got good marketing appeal for the less informed ;-)

Well, it's the most famous MTFs in the Tour. By the way another article from Le Dauphiné states about this double climb (the dual climb is in the same stage):
http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/2012/09/23/le-tour-2013-passera-deux-fois-a-l-alpe-d-huez
They talk about the logistics, the fact that the road to the Col de Sarenne has been resurfaced recently, and about the "Holland Turn 7".
But I just hope we won't have any more double climbs. 2010 Tourmalet, 2011 Galibier, 2012 Peyresourde, 2013 Alpe d'Huez... There are tons of big climbs where the Tour never went on or did race but several decades ago.

On Velowire.com, we are doing a project to send many great climbs, but unknown in the Tour, to ASO.

 

[Descender]

Well, it's the most famous MTFs in the Tour. By the way another article from Le Dauphiné states about this double climb (the dual climb is in the same stage):
http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/2012/09/23/le-tour-2013-passera-deux-fois-a-l-alpe-d-huez
They talk about the logistics, the fact that the road to the Col de Sarenne has been resurfaced recently, and about the "Holland Turn 7".
But I just hope we won't have any more double climbs. 2010 Tourmalet, 2011 Galibier, 2012 Peyresourde, 2013 Alpe d'Huez... There are tons of big climbs where the Tour never went on or did race but several decades ago.

On Velowire.com, we are doing a project to send many great climbs, but unknown in the Tour, to ASO.

Well done.

Spaniards have been doing that for years. Unipublic seems to have picked up some ideas from them (notably Ancares recently), but to their dismay, they gave them the Unipublic touch, therefore defeating the project's primary purpose.

 

[Ferminal]

If the final day is a road stage around Annecy I'm not convinced the day before will finish at Le Grand Bornand. If Le Dauphine was wrong on the Semnoz TT then they could be wrong there too.

 

[Descender]

If the final day is a road stage around Annecy I'm not convinced the day before will finish at Le Grand Bornand. If Le Dauphine was wrong on the Semnoz TT then they could be wrong there too.

My thoughts exactly... it seems awkward to finish the last two mountain stages on two towns so close to one another.

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

Well, it's the most famous MTFs in the Tour. By the way another article from Le Dauphiné states about this double climb (the dual climb is in the same stage):
http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/2012/09/23/le-tour-2013-passera-deux-fois-a-l-alpe-d-huez
They talk about the logistics, the fact that the road to the Col de Sarenne has been resurfaced recently, and about the "Holland Turn 7".
But I just hope we won't have any more double climbs. 2010 Tourmalet, 2011 Galibier, 2012 Peyresourde, 2013 Alpe d'Huez... There are tons of big climbs where the Tour never went on or did race but several decades ago.

On Velowire.com, we are doing a project to send many great climbs, but unknown in the Tour, to ASO.

What climbs are on the list? I think there is a real need to have different climbs.

 

[Linkinito]

What climbs are on the list? I think there is a real need to have different climbs.

We have a sh*tload of them. We have already 50 or so, with three quarters of them unknown in the Tour (but some of them have been ridden in other ASO races like Tour de l'Avenir, Paris-Nice & Critérium du Dauphiné), and the remaining quarter are climbs forgotten by the Tour, or other sides of big climbs like Grand Colombier. But be assured that "our" classics (like Mont du Chat) are going to be part of it.

 

[Netserk]

We have a sh*tload of them. We have already 50 or so, with three quarters of them unknown in the Tour (but some of them have been ridden in other ASO races like Tour de l'Avenir, Paris-Nice & Critérium du Dauphiné), and the remaining quarter are climbs forgotten by the Tour, or other sides of big climbs like Grand Colombier. But be assured that "our" classics (like Mont du Chat) are going to be part of it.

Can you post/link that list plz

 

[Linkinito]

Can you post/link that list plz

http://www.velowire.com/avotretour/
All of those who start with "Projet ASO".

My submissions are here: http://www.velowire.com/avotretour/...itions--du-vercors-aux-monts-de-vaucluse.html
Which covers a zone from the Vercors to the south of Mont Ventoux (found a great climb near it - Col de Lagarde d'Apt, 11 km @ 7 %).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Could do with a few more French-Basque and French-Catalan climbs, for my money. We only ever seem to use the middle Pyrénées. The race needs the likes of Arnostegi/Elhursaro, Col d'Irey, Errozate, Col de Landerre, Arangaitz/Ibarburia, Bostmendieta and L'Aberouat on the west, and Mantet, Coll de la Llosa, Mines de Batère/Coll de Descarga, Col de Boca Jalère and Miralles on the east.

And that's before we get to the other ranges, and climbs like the Col de la Lusette.

 

[Linkinito]

Could do with a few more French-Basque and French-Catalan climbs, for my money. We only ever seem to use the middle Pyrénées. The race needs the likes of Arnostegi/Elhursaro, Col d'Irey, Errozate, Col de Landerre, Arangaitz/Ibarburia, Bostmendieta and L'Aberouat on the west, and Mantet, Coll de la Llosa, Mines de Batère/Coll de Descarga, Col de Boca Jalère and Miralles on the east.

And that's before we get to the other ranges, and climbs like the Col de la Lusette.

Basque and Catalan climbs are planned, we already did some of them. The main problem is to find out if the road is effectively "raceable" with the Tour. TDF isn't Giro and we'll never see any unpaved roads like Finestre. Every road must be asphalted from start to finish, and must be wide enough. We try to avoid roads that are too narrow. Especially after what happened in Péguère last year.

In some cases Google Street View really helps, but it's unavailable in many "obscure" climbs.

Lusette was done some weeks ago. Definitely the hardest climb in the Massif Central since Puy de Dôme disappeared. Actually, most of our proposed climbs are in the Alps/Jura/Vosges.

Anyway the "head" of the project (bapt77) plans to send the project to ASO late october/early november, after the official presentation of the 2013 Tour de France route (as, well, we can't have any influence on the 2013 Route now, as apparently it is completed since months). Because right now ASO is quite busy for the presentation and doing the final preparation.

 

[airstream]

Whether you think about the climbs in isolation OR you take the riders into account, Joux-Plane + Morzine-Avoriaz is not too tough for the Tour de France, nor will it ever be.

of course not, but no way aso will design such a stage considering double alpe-d'huez and the stage to grand bornard which is apparently very very hard as well.

 

[roundabout]

Given that ASO likes to repeat climbs, I propose a circuit race around Annecy. 2 laps. Cret de Chatillon and Forclaz de Montmin each lap.

 

[McLovin]

Anyway the "head" of the project (bapt77) plans to send the project to ASO late october/early november, after the official presentation of the 2013 Tour de France route (as, well, we can't have any influence on the 2013 Route now, as apparently it is completed since months). Because right now ASO is quite busy for the presentation and doing the final preparation.

in an interview for a magazine from my country Pescheux was saying in june 2011 that the route is fixed even for 2015. didn't said if hundred percent.

 

[Linkinito]

in an interview for a magazine from my country Pescheux was saying in june 2011 that the route is fixed even for 2015. didn't said if hundred percent.

If this is true, he probably talked about the general layout (for example: North of France - Vosges - Massif Central - Southern Alps - Mediterranean Coast - Pyrenees - Paris). it would be too hard for a city to secure a stage start/arrival several years before it happens. Sometimes, when visiting the cities, they make propositions for years to come (like "we can't include you in the 2014 route but we can for 2015" - mostly happens in medium mountain and flat zones).

So yeah, he might talked about the general layout, but nothing really precise - as the exact route is built more precisely during the year prior to the Tour: for the 2014 TDF, the route will be studied and built through all of 2013 with candidates, with some very minor modifications after the presentation. In recent history, the biggest of them all was the Col de Larche cancellation in 2008, leading to the stage start being moved from Digne-les-Bains to Embrun and the col de Larche being replaced by the col Agnel.

But most of the times it's just a matter of kilometers, some minor deviations are done to the stages (for example a stage goes from 160 to 162.5 km due to a minor route change).

So that's why our project might affect the 2014 Tour (and following).

 

[Ferminal]

The second ITT sounds great, at least 35km and a couple of climbs.

 

[barmaher]

The first real mountain stage, on July 6th, looks to be going from Castres to Ax-3-Domaines.

That will take in the final climb of 7.8km at 8.2%, hopefully after the Port de Paliheres...which would be great.

I think Castres to Port de Paliheres to Ax 3 Domaines is 187km, so I am not sure if they will have much of a chance to squeeze in an extra col.