Tour de France 2015 stage 20: Modane - Alpe d'Huez

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

The post-charteau era in the KoM has worked.

All years but Voeckler it was one of the three strongest climbers that won the KoM

What happens tomorrow. Seems a bit harsh to let the 2nd placed rider wear it into Paris and then take it away1

Last year Quintana won White and KOM. He wore KOM and nobody wore white.

If you are talking about 2013, I am sure Talansky was in white in Paris. My guess is either Bardet or Quintana will be in Polkadot and the other in white

Really? I suppose that shows you how much I care about Talansky

Nairo will be in white. Jersey you have won on merit will outrank jersey you've inherited by being 2nd.

Rankings of jerseys: yellow > green > polka > white

However, as Quintana is 1st in the white jersey comp and only 2nd in the KOM, he will wear the jersey which is by rights his (he will take it home, he won't take the polka dots home as they're Froome's) so if anybody's in polka it's gonna be Bardet.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

The post-charteau era in the KoM has worked.

All years but Voeckler it was one of the three strongest climbers that won the KoM

Only problem is that most years it has been won almost accidentally. Only Samu and Voeckler really targeted it.

I think they need some kind of compromise, because they were giving way too many points away in the 2000-2010 era which meant once the era of the KOM points-gathering specialists like Rasmussen and Virenque was over we got a few weak ones, but giving 50pts for an HC summit and only 5 for a cat.2 is really an egregious difference that makes it hard to really target, because the GC guys will always have the huge advantage due to current parcours trends, especially if ASO continues the policy of Unipuerto stages like the PSM one. There really need to be more difficult climbs mid-stage for the current points to really work, so that people like Bardet and Purito might actually believe they can beat the GC guys for the jersey today.

If the GC leader had won the GPM due to an epic raid along the lines of Schleck's odyssey in 2011 or Floyd's comeback tale in 2006 that's one thing, but Froome hasn't needed to pick up points anywhere really; he held the jersey for a week based almost entirely on that PSM stage win. I don't resent that Froome won the GPM, since he was the strongest climber in the race until the last two days, which you might have expected from the GC winner in a race which had very few time trial kilometres. I do resent that he won it only scoring points on a small number of climbs.

ASO like to tilt things towards the favourites though, their reform of the points jersey was to make it easier for sprinters, and the reform of the KOM makes it too easy for GC guys to luck into without trying for it. It's generally wound up on good shoulders for it, but we've lost out on any kind of battle for the jersey. At least with Voeckler you had him properly fighting to keep it.

I agree with you overall, but Froome won it by 7 or 11 points, and I think that small margin would't exist if he hadn't had his teammates pull off for him at about three intermediate points. In other words, even though it was mostly a byproduct of his winning the GC, he did do a little calculating to keep, and as it turned out, win the jersey.

 

[Billie]

Re:

What was the most injured or ill anyone ever finished on the champs elysees? I'm sure even if Froome developed a fever he'd still do it, but has anyone finished with a broken leg or something, not including injuries sustained in the sprint finish itself?

Westra last year I think abandoned on the Champs with 40 km to go. Not really what you asked but...

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Another tw*t spitting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m0aDfTXUrY

Hooligan

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

What was the most injured or ill anyone ever finished on the champs elysees? I'm sure even if Froome developed a fever he'd still do it, but has anyone finished with a broken leg or something, not including injuries sustained in the sprint finish itself?

Didn't G finish the 2013 tour with a cracked pelvis or something crazy!?

He did, but more alarmingly he had that same injury for several days beforehand.

 

[Richeypen]

Re: Re:

What was the most injured or ill anyone ever finished on the champs elysees? I'm sure even if Froome developed a fever he'd still do it, but has anyone finished with a broken leg or something, not including injuries sustained in the sprint finish itself?

Didn't G finish the 2013 tour with a cracked pelvis or something crazy!?

He did, but more alarmingly he had that same injury for several days beforehand.

Several days??

He did it on stage one!

 

[fungusbear]

Re: Re:

What was the most injured or ill anyone ever finished on the champs elysees? I'm sure even if Froome developed a fever he'd still do it, but has anyone finished with a broken leg or something, not including injuries sustained in the sprint finish itself?

Didn't G finish the 2013 tour with a cracked pelvis or something crazy!?

He did, but more alarmingly he had that same injury for several days beforehand.

I think he carried it for two weeks. Guy is such a hard man

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

Simplistic though it sounds, the person who beats Froome just needs to stay within 1 minute of Froome in the first week on the flat and peak in the third week. He faded in the third week in both 2013 and 2015 but there was no-one left within good time.

Exactly. Except if there are time trials and Froome prepares for them. Then you can add like 2 minutes to that.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

What was the most injured or ill anyone ever finished on the champs elysees? I'm sure even if Froome developed a fever he'd still do it, but has anyone finished with a broken leg or something, not including injuries sustained in the sprint finish itself?

Didn't G finish the 2013 tour with a cracked pelvis or something crazy!?

He did, but more alarmingly he had that same injury for several days beforehand.

Several is putting it mildly (even if technically correct) as it was from a crash in stage 1.

 

[pastronef]

nice win at the end for froome
it's great he gained time on that echelon stage, while everybody said he cant ride, they will be blown away in the wind etc.

all the spitting a booing did not work
in their face

 

[yespatterns]

Re: Re:

Another sad day for cycling. Good on Nairo for trying, and great ride by Pinot!

A great day of racing is a sad day for cycling ?

The exact opposite no ?

Nope, just what I said.

 

[yespatterns]

Re: Re:

Another sad day for cycling. Good on Nairo for trying, and great ride by Pinot!

What a ridiculous statement, it's a sad day. It's not, the ADH stage showed cycling at its best. Where the integrity of the sport for once did not waiver. Where the best rider won overall, Pinot providing the French with a needed win and positive headlines. Strange logic,you have there sir.

Strange logic? Not so much. You'll figure it out at some point.

 

[TMJ]

Re: Re:

Simplistic though it sounds, the person who beats Froome just needs to stay within 1 minute of Froome in the first week on the flat and peak in the third week. He faded in the third week in both 2013 and 2015 but there was no-one left within good time.

Exactly. Except if there are time trials and Froome prepares for them. Then you can add like 2 minutes to that.

You say 'the person' but it is obvious there is only one person you must be talking about and that is Nairo Quintana because he is the only rider who made up time on Froome in 2013 and 2015.

All the other big guns, Nibail, Contador, Valverde were below Froome's level.

I do agree with you that all rivals will have to be bang-on from the first stage because we have now seen in the last two TdF's how vital that first week is.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

nice win at the end for froome
it's great he gained time on that echelon stage, while everybody said he cant ride, they will be blown away in the wind etc.

all the spitting a booing did not work
in their face

I think a lot of that was wishful thinking along two lines:

1) Sky have proven themselves to be quite tactically inept at times, preferring to rely on a simple bludgeoning tactic that requires having the strongest rider in the race, to out-thinking the opposition or finding time in unexpected places.
2) The race could get very boring if there was no deficit for Sky to make up, given their preference for a dull as dishwater train technique throughout the mountains and Froome's anticipated strength (as let's face it, at this point Froome's reputation post transformation is such that he would need to break some of Pantani's records with his ridiculous eggbeater leg technique going at 150rpm to shock people), and so people kind of hoped that for the sake of the race that they could get something more entertaining if he didn't just pick up the jersey in week 1 and wear it to Paris.

As it turns out, people with fears under section 2 were correct, it took him getting ill with two days to go to give us any suspense in the race. Until then, the only drama since Tony Martin crashed out was off-the-bike quarrelling with journos and the Clinic talk attacks vs. pro-Sky propaganda in the press. A bit like 2009 really; a bit of drama early on, a really good mountain stage near the end, and a whole bunch of crap in the middle.

 

[wwabbit]

Re: Re:

The post-charteau era in the KoM has worked.

All years but Voeckler it was one of the three strongest climbers that won the KoM

What happens tomorrow. Seems a bit harsh to let the 2nd placed rider wear it into Paris and then take it away1

Last year Quintana won White and KOM. He wore KOM and nobody wore white.

2013 you mean? Talansky wore the white Jersey into Paris

 

[jaylew]

I'm pleasantly surprised by Bala's performance today. I half expected him to lose some time, but he was arguably the 2nd strongest guy out there today.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Froome only went about 10s faster than his 2013 time. His time on Toussuire was also very similar to 2012. I wasn't expecting such fast times because of how fast they went up CdF, setting that record.

Porte had one of the strangest Tours I can remember. Rather unforgettable except for the two most important stages of a GT, (i.e. the first and last MTFs). I do wonder if the rotating cast of domestiques was a strategy by SKY or something they lucked into or were forced into by illness/ form.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

What was the most injured or ill anyone ever finished on the champs elysees? I'm sure even if Froome developed a fever he'd still do it, but has anyone finished with a broken leg or something, not including injuries sustained in the sprint finish itself?

Didn't G finish the 2013 tour with a cracked pelvis or something crazy!?

He did, but more alarmingly he had that same injury for several days beforehand.

Several is putting it mildly (even if technically correct) as it was from a crash in stage 1.

My memory fails me. For some reason I associated it with the day before the second rest day

 

[Swiss Tony]

What a sad sad day for cycling, the yellow jersey on the penultimate day of the worlds biggest race digs deep to cut his losses only to be booed constantly then spat at on the final 14km climb... for what, ruined it for me.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Finally a proper GC battle....

Much too late in the race.

Congrats to Pinot, happy to see him a stage win here.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

The post-charteau era in the KoM has worked.

All years but Voeckler it was one of the three strongest climbers that won the KoM

What happens tomorrow. Seems a bit harsh to let the 2nd placed rider wear it into Paris and then take it away1

Last year Quintana won White and KOM. He wore KOM and nobody wore white.

2013 you mean? Talansky wore the white Jersey into Paris

It feels very odd Talansky being young. It feels like he's been a second tier contender for ages.

 

[Tarnum]

Re:

Froome only went about 10s faster than his 2013 time. His time on Toussuire was also very similar to 2012. I wasn't expecting such fast times because of how fast they went up CdF, setting that record.

Porte had one of the strangest Tours I can remember. Rather unforgettable except for the two most important stages of a GT, (i.e. the first and last MTFs). I do wonder if the rotating cast of domestiques was a strategy by SKY or something they lucked into or were forced into by illness/ form.

Must be strategy. Porte going from outside top 100 to 7th one day apart is not sickness.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

The post-charteau era in the KoM has worked.

All years but Voeckler it was one of the three strongest climbers that won the KoM

What happens tomorrow. Seems a bit harsh to let the 2nd placed rider wear it into Paris and then take it away1

Last year Quintana won White and KOM. He wore KOM and nobody wore white.

2013 you mean? Talansky wore the white Jersey into Paris

It feels very odd Talansky being young. It feels like he's been a second tier contender for ages.

He was 2nd the year Nairo won Avenir. The one that gets me is Sagan. He's still eligible for the white jersey but it seems like he's been around forever. Easy to forget how young he is.

 

[TMP402]

Valverde crying hard at reaching the podium. I wonder what he'd have done if he'd won the race.

http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/tour-de-francia/tdp-declas-valverde-250715/3227111/?media=tve

 

[djpbaltimore]

I think a lot of that was wishful thinking along two lines:

1) Sky have proven themselves to be quite tactically inept at times, preferring to rely on a simple bludgeoning tactic that requires having the strongest rider in the race, to out-thinking the opposition or finding time in unexpected places.
2) The race could get very boring if there was no deficit for Sky to make up, given their preference for a dull as dishwater train technique throughout the mountains and Froome's anticipated strength (as let's face it, at this point Froome's reputation post transformation is such that he would need to break some of Pantani's records with his ridiculous eggbeater leg technique going at 150rpm to shock people), and so people kind of hoped that for the sake of the race that they could get something more entertaining if he didn't just pick up the jersey in week 1 and wear it to Paris.

As it turns out, people with fears under section 2 were correct, it took him getting ill with two days to go to give us any suspense in the race. Until then, the only drama since Tony Martin crashed out was off-the-bike quarrelling with journos and the Clinic talk attacks vs. pro-Sky propaganda in the press. A bit like 2009 really; a bit of drama early on, a really good mountain stage near the end, and a whole bunch of crap in the middle.

I have to respectfully disagree on that point. 2009 was a snoozefest compared to 2015 IMO. For people who primarily wanted to see SKY toppled, I can see how it might not be entertaining as it seemed like a procession after the PSM debacle. But so many of the stages had endings where the GC men had to come out and fight for seconds besides the MTFs. This was a tour that Al Trautwig would've loved. And the Alpine stages were more interesting than I can recall since 2011. Attacks starting at 130km to go! Personally, I also enjoyed that there were very few boring stages where a break of 4 was inexorably brought back by Cavs' team, followed by a sprint to the line.

EDIT, Respectfully.