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I just want to see a brutal Alpine stage again with behemoths of over 2km that are not Glandon/CdF or even Madeleine. I think the Tour should be ashamed of themselves every time the Pyrenees have the hightest point in the race
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i expect the galibier because it should be already 2015. also i expect the distortion of the stage profiles to be even more. due to the hype of y-axis and the ridicolous short moutain stages they will look square to make it seem a "tough" parcours.
Red Rick said:
i expect the galibier because it should be already 2015. also i expect the distortion of the stage profiles to be even more. due to the hype of y-axis and the ridicolous short moutain stages they will look square to make it seem a "tough" parcours.
Sorry for the offtop, but didn't Jaskuła and Rominger really drop him but it didn't work because thay didn't work with each other? Or is this just a legend? Interestingly i never watched '93 TdF online... need to catch up. Besides he had a very comfortable gap in GC so he would still limit his loses with his yellow not in any danger.Libertine Seguros said:Andorra-la-Vella - Port del Cantó - Port de la Bonaigua - Coll de Portillón - Col de Peyresourde - Col d'Azet - Pla d'Adet is 230km, as per the 1993 route when Zenon Jaskuła and Tony Rominger went insane in the brain trying to drop Miguelón. Azet & Adet are far shorter than Aspin & Tourmalet too.Stromeon said:Ammattipyoraily tweeted this link, which sounds pretty affirmative in describing Ventoux as being the finish of Stage 14, beginning in Draguignan.
For the Pyrenees, what about Cantó - Bonaigua - Portillon - Peyresourde - Aspin - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden for the stage starting in Andorra?Or is that like 300kms or something?
I want this stage and 100km of TTing, every other aspect of that Tour would be secondary
Libertine Seguros said:We haven't seen Superbagnères in a GT since the 80s, and I don't think Catalunya has been there since 1996 either. That means that the natural perfect pair of Port de Balès - Superbagnères for two back to back Pyrenean HCs has never been used.
Aime-La Plagne is another - just four times in the Tour, but two of those are very famous climbs, one the destructive exhibition of Miguel Indurain in 1995 where in total serenity he ground the opposition completely into dust, and the other the legendary Stephen Roche comeback in 1987. It's not been seen since 2002, and a combination with Mont Bisanne and the Cormet de Roseland via Col du Pré would make a stupendously good triple-header although there is a bit of flat between Bourg-St-Maurice and Aime.
The Col de la Bonette has also only appeared four times, twice in the 60s, 1993 and 2008. Following on from the Col de la Lombarde (or leading into it, like in 1993 when they had an MTF at Isola 2000) it is brutal, but there are also the possibilities to make those perfect stages where the monolithic climb is penultimate and an easier climb is last, tempting attacks earlier: from Bonette north as in 1993, you could climb to Auron after the descent; from climbing Bonette south as in 2008 you could finish at Le Super-Sauze. A third, potentially awesome option would be a short stage from Guillestre to Sant'Anna di Vinadio, over the Col de Vars, Col de la Bonette and Col de la Lombarde with a punchy finish. For a longer stage you could go from Briançon and precede it with Izoard for one of the mightiest stages ever.
Esischie/Fauniera is obviously not seen often enough for most fans' liking, plus a great deal of climbs in the Valle d'Aosta - it is now a long time since we last saw Pila as a mountaintop finish. Monte Bondone is kept very rare as well, of course, plus though it's never been in a GT, the Rettenbachferner has developed its own mythos from two times in the Deutschlandtour and once in Suisse owing to its brutality.
The Vuelta doesn't use the Alto de Abantos at the moment as it's in pretty horrendous condition, however as one of the few mountaintops overlooking Madrid it has a certain legendary status to it that would be nice to see restored.
I would also like Jaizkibel to be restored to its rightful place as the key part of the San Sebastián parcours, which the new route takes away.
Another Alpe D'huez TT would be good. Would also like to see the first mountain stage finishing with an easier climb - knowing that Froome is usually amazing on the first mountain stage.
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And especially by what logic that is "fair"?
By what logic the GC riders who can make a very good flat ITT shouldn't get an advantage thanks to their additional skill wrt their opponents?sir fly said:
And especially by what logic that is "fair"?
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Quintana and Nibali against Froome and Contador would lose the same amount of time in a 40-50k flat itt as in 20k uphill tt.
Sorry, my bad. What was I think about...
Yes, you're right. No logic at all.Eshnar said:By what logic the GC riders who can make a very good flat ITT shouldn't get an advantage thanks to their additional skill wrt their opponents?sir fly said:
Quintana and Nibali against Froome and Contador would lose the same amount of time in a 40-50k flat itt as in 20k uphill tt.
Sorry, my bad. What was I think about...
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ofc they wouldn't. But my question was "why would it be not fair?"sir fly said:Yes, you're right. No logic at all.Eshnar said:By what logic the GC riders who can make a very good flat ITT shouldn't get an advantage thanks to their additional skill wrt their opponents?sir fly said:
Quintana and Nibali against Froome and Contador would lose the same amount of time in a 40-50k flat itt as in 20k uphill tt.
Sorry, my bad. What was I think about...
There are strong rumours, based on hotel bookings, that there won't be the traditional switch between Alps and Pyrenees first.
In other words, Pyrenees will be before the Alps again this year.
Here's a rough idea of what the route would look like based on current rumours, based on local press and hotel bookings.
In other words, Pyrenees will be before the Alps again this year.
Here's a rough idea of what the route would look like based on current rumours, based on local press and hotel bookings.
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It would be enough to do it only once, but with Pailheres + Envalira to start with. I can forgive ASO for not making it 260kms long.
Red Rick said:
It would be enough to do it only once, but with Pailheres + Envalira to start with. I can forgive ASO for not making it 260kms long.
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Mont Ventoux would be perfect since they'd be levelled from the terrain point of view, but the time trialing aspect would still separate them.
And we're asking ourselves who's the best climber... Here you go, 21-22k's of a difficult climb, show yourselves.
From the racing suspense point of view, it's fair to design a time trial where lesser time trialists won't be too much handicapped.Eshnar said:ofc they wouldn't. But my question was "why would it be not fair?"sir fly said:Yes, you're right. No logic at all.Eshnar said:By what logic the GC riders who can make a very good flat ITT shouldn't get an advantage thanks to their additional skill wrt their opponents?sir fly said:
Quintana and Nibali against Froome and Contador would lose the same amount of time in a 40-50k flat itt as in 20k uphill tt.
Sorry, my bad. What was I think about...
Mont Ventoux would be perfect since they'd be levelled from the terrain point of view, but the time trialing aspect would still separate them.
And we're asking ourselves who's the best climber... Here you go, 21-22k's of a difficult climb, show yourselves.
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I would say that we should be asking ourselves who's the better rider, but I guess you'd disagree.
Well, if that's what we're asking yes, I see the logic. (But then you should also get rid of flat stages)sir fly said:
I would say that we should be asking ourselves who's the better rider, but I guess you'd disagree.
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You're intentionally neglecting the obvious point, emphasized several times, that a Mont Ventoux itt would be a spectacular stage given the current GC contenders.
Also, you're trying to banalise the discussion with this cheap remarks. We're talking about one stage that would point out the dominant quality in current GT field.
Like you're looking for quarrel.
We know who the best rider is, but aren't sure if he's the best climber, as well.Eshnar said:
You're intentionally neglecting the obvious point, emphasized several times, that a Mont Ventoux itt would be a spectacular stage given the current GC contenders.
Also, you're trying to banalise the discussion with this cheap remarks. We're talking about one stage that would point out the dominant quality in current GT field.
Like you're looking for quarrel.
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isn't that the beauty of cycling every year every race things are different?
But we don't know if this TDF's best rider will be next year's as well?sir fly said:
isn't that the beauty of cycling every year every race things are different?
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I'd really like a MSR-esque stage, with a small hill extremely close to the finish. Would be interesting to see if an attacker or a sprinter prevails
I'd really like a MSR-esque stage, with a small hill extremely close to the finish. Would be interesting to see if an attacker or a sprinter prevails
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And while there's true in the claim that we can only talk about the best in certain event, there is also a more permanent quality of each rider.
Well, this year's route tested pretty much entire spectrum of cycling skills. But so did the last year's and the outcomes are different.LaFlorecita said:But we don't know if this TDF's best rider will be next year's as well?sir fly said:
And while there's true in the claim that we can only talk about the best in certain event, there is also a more permanent quality of each rider.
I quite like those rumours. Méribel Mottaret, La Rosière, Le Bettex are very unorthodox destinations for a conservative tour like TdF. The overall route seems to look quite original too. I think that the real TdF route will look much more mundane than the one you presented. Good, that there are no rumours about l'Alpe. In last years TdF always had this overuse when Pyrenees where first.Linkinitouille said:
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I always was a big andy schleck fan but in 2011 I didnt even get the idea to complain that andy didnt win after he lost the yellow jersey in an ITT.
I don't get your point. Yes a Mt. Ventoux MTT would be epic but that doesnt change the fact that a gt winner also should be good in a flat ITT and if not he just has to be much better than the others on the mountains. If it would only be about climbing we could do a one day race starting le bourg d'Oisans and finishing in alp d huez. But a gt is also about time trialing, descending, recovery, tactics, ...sir fly said:
I always was a big andy schleck fan but in 2011 I didnt even get the idea to complain that andy didnt win after he lost the yellow jersey in an ITT.
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Where and when have I written anything that opposes the opinion?
I was talking about that one hypothetical stage that would be a nice tt-climbing split test, and then a certain member constructs my entire racing position out of it and you jump on the same bandwagon.
Pay attention at the bold lines.Gigs_98 said:
Where and when have I written anything that opposes the opinion?
I was talking about that one hypothetical stage that would be a nice tt-climbing split test, and then a certain member constructs my entire racing position out of it and you jump on the same bandwagon.
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Oh and no I didnt write that comment because of Eshnar. Maybe you feel better when you think Cyclingnews is full of people without their own thoughts, but sorry dude I just thought your posts were nonsense
yes you talked about that one stage but while talking about it you also said its more fair to make MTT's than flat ITT's because the differences between the contenders aren't that big. I simply disagree because I have another opinion and I think a gc contender has to be an allrounder and not a pure climber.sir fly said:
Oh and no I didnt write that comment because of Eshnar. Maybe you feel better when you think Cyclingnews is full of people without their own thoughts, but sorry dude I just thought your posts were nonsense
How I would love a Mont du Chat from Bourget du lac finish. It's a climb that needs using and would destroy the field. It's near enough to the grand Columbia from memory also but there's other climbs closer. After a rest day though would be an anti climax possibly better if it was the 3/4th day in the Alps on a proper queen stage.
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