Tour de France 2017 stage 21: Montgeron > Paris, 103 KM

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Woo I got a photo with Burghardt!

Cool

He just came to the barriers and then I went to take selfie and when I said 'smile' he smiled
I am so happy at the moment.

so you took a picture of yourself that he happened to be in

He came to the barriers and posed (smiled) for several people
Edit: What Flo said

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

I firmly disagree. I only believe Cav, Kittel and Demare are faster in pure speed. Gaviria and Ewan are similar. Bouhanni and Greipel are definitely slower. Viviani I'm a bit more unsure off.

You do know he beat all of them in other races right?

Greipel without a doubt still has more pure speed. Groenewegen is better at navigating and positioning, then again all sprinters are.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I firmly disagree. I only believe Cav, Kittel and Demare are faster in pure speed. Gaviria and Ewan are similar. Bouhanni and Greipel are definitely slower. Viviani I'm a bit more unsure off.

You do know he beat all of them in other races right?

Greipel without a doubt still has more pure speed. Groenewegen is better at navigating and positioning, then again all sprinters are.

Groenewegen really isn't that good at navigating. All sprints this year he was either boxed in or too far back. When he got 2nd he was in Kittel's wheel who started the sprint from far back which means Groenewegen was even further back, but overtaking Kittel was impossible this TdF.

Greipel is one of the worst at positioning indeed.

 

[Kwibus]

I really think some people underestimate Groenewegens performance today. Sure if Kittel was on his wheel than Kittel would've won, but nobody could beat Kittel this year so that's not even an argument.

Groenewegen started his sprint with 250mtrs to go with Kristoff in his wheel and Kristoff simply lost his wheel and couldn't hold it. Now Kristoff isn't the sprinter with the highest topspeed, but kicking him of your wheel is almost Kittel style. Not to mention it was a headwind as well and he held on for 250mtrs.

Ofcourse Greipel closed in really fast at the end who was coming off wheels and Groenewegen was sprinting into a headwind for 250mtrs. This was just a really good sprint.

He certainly isn't 1st tier, because right now only Kittel is 1st tier. He's among a large group of sprinters, but he is certainly among the men with the highest topspeed.

 

[RedheadDane]

That was a nice sprint by Groenewegen.











So... I was watching a large chunk of the stage on mute, what was Offredo doing towards the beginning of the stage?

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re: Re:

I firmly disagree. I only believe Cav, Kittel and Demare are faster in pure speed. Gaviria and Ewan are similar. Bouhanni and Greipel are definitely slower. Viviani I'm a bit more unsure off.

You do know he beat all of them in other races right?

Greipel without a doubt still has more pure speed. Groenewegen is better at navigating and positioning, then again all sprinters are.

Greipel showed this year he is declining. Definitely no 1st tier anymore.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Re:

That was a nice sprint by Groenewegen.











So... I was watching a large chunk of the stage on mute, what was Offredo doing towards the beginning of the stage?

Regional de l'étape, greeting family and friends

 

[Leinster]

He's only 24 and this is his second GT... it's all subjective to determine tiers but he's shown he can match the best in other races.

So has Colbrelli at times, so has Degenkolb, so has EBH, so has Matthews. None of them are top tier sprinters though.

Groenewegen certainly has the potential, but he's nowhere near the elite level yet. His positioning is way too poor for a start.

His positioning was perfect today. He muscled Kristoff off his leadout man's wheel, then exploded out of the final corner.

Yes, today it was excellent. Most of the other 10 sprint finishes in this Tour it has been terrible though. And it probably would not have been so good today with another four top quality sprinters and their trains all jostling for position - like there was at the start of he race.

That's just Champs Elysees sprinting, though, isn't it. There's always a train or two that don't make it to Paris.

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re:

That's just Champs Elysees sprinting, though, isn't it. There's always a train or two that don't make it to Paris.

This tour the trains were not that important anyway. I have hardly seen a good leadout.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

So... I was watching a large chunk of the stage on mute, what was Offredo doing towards the beginning of the stage?

Greetings his family and friends.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Thinking about it again, 2010 obviously had some great stages, but the great MTFs of 2013 and the arrival of a super aggressive Nairo Quintana made that the best race in the last 10 years for me personally. I also think 2015 is up there.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

That's just Champs Elysees sprinting, though, isn't it. There's always a train or two that don't make it to Paris.

This tour the trains were not that important anyway. I have hardly seen a good leadout.

Bora's leadouts at the Giro were top notch. Gaviria (with the help of Richeze) got the jump on Bennett every time anyway.

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re: Re:

That's just Champs Elysees sprinting, though, isn't it. There's always a train or two that don't make it to Paris.

This tour the trains were not that important anyway. I have hardly seen a good leadout.

Bora's leadouts at the Giro were top notch. Gaviria (with the help of Richeze) got the jump on Bennett every time anyway.

Yes you are right, but I was talking about this tour. I only saw some good leadouts by DD for Eddy Hagen. For the rest most trains were already done when the last km still had to come.

 

[BullsFan22]

I don't know how there were no crashes in the finale. Hats off to all the riders for keeping their wits about them and staying on their bikes. The final K's of this route is always hectic and fast, but to me it seemed extra nervy today. I really wanted Greipel to win, but he was too far back and ran out of real estate.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Thinking about it again, 2010 obviously had some great stages, but the great MTFs of 2013 and the arrival of a super aggressive Nairo Quintana made that the best race in the last 10 years for me personally. I also think 2015 is up there.

Wrong thread Valv.Piti... I bet you're getting a little tired now. Thanks for all the work and hours you put in over these three weeks. Have a Carsberg on me . Cheers!

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Voeckler got to climb on the podium and even got a trophy for his career... Nice gesture but maybe a bit too much.

Yeah I agree. Voeckler was cool in 2004, but as the years rolled on, I just feel he got more annoying.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

That's just Champs Elysees sprinting, though, isn't it. There's always a train or two that don't make it to Paris.

This tour the trains were not that important anyway. I have hardly seen a good leadout.

I understand what you are saying, but look at it from a different perspective.

Trains were super important and you know why? Because about 8 teams got one, the competition for a good leadout is sooo fierce that they burn eachother.
If 5 of those teams decide to stop using a train then 3 remaining teams will have a lot more chance to get a good leadout done for their sprinter.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

That's just Champs Elysees sprinting, though, isn't it. There's always a train or two that don't make it to Paris.

This tour the trains were not that important anyway. I have hardly seen a good leadout.

Bora's leadouts at the Giro were top notch. Gaviria (with the help of Richeze) got the jump on Bennett every time anyway.

Yes you are right, but I was talking about this tour. I only saw some good leadouts by DD for Eddy Hagen. For the rest most trains were already done when the last km still had to come.

Well yes, but my point was that just because a team has their leadout act locked in, doesn't necessarily mean they'll win stages. Cofidis could've had a 9-man train leading Bouhanni right to the 100m flag every day, but it wouldn't have done any good because there are other, faster sprinters who would've blown by him at the line.

 

[Ruby United]

Of course, it's all subjective, but the list of riders faster than Groenewegen are:
Kittel, Cavendish, Demare, Sagan, Gaviria, Ewan
Viviani is as fast. EBH too - at least in terms of raw power.
This is probably the last year Greipel is on his level.

But the simple fact that nearly nobody considers Dylan a top-tier sprinter yet says a lot.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well to me he was already the fastest in this Tour behind Kittel. So with Kittel gone it was ez.
No surprise win to me. Neither to for instance other fans like podiumcafe.com (who predicted the same and also noted Groenewegen was the fastest sprinter left).

If you spent your time sleeping, you'll be surprised. EBH is btw not even close. He got his ass kicked by Groenewegen in his own home twice (tour of norway) by similar big margins as today.

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re: Re:

That's just Champs Elysees sprinting, though, isn't it. There's always a train or two that don't make it to Paris.

This tour the trains were not that important anyway. I have hardly seen a good leadout.

I understand what you are saying, but look at it from a different perspective.

Trains were super important and you know why? Because about 8 teams got one, the competition for a good leadout is sooo fierce that they burn eachother.
If 5 of those teams decide to stop using a train then 3 remaining teams will have a lot more chance to get a good leadout done for their sprinter.

Yes you are right. Maybe important is not the right word, they were just not a decisive factor in the sprint.

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Of course, it's all subjective, but the list of riders faster than Groenewegen are:
Kittel, Cavendish, Demare, Sagan, Gaviria, Ewan
Viviani is as fast. EBH too - at least in terms of raw power.
This is probably the last year Greipel is on his level.

But the simple fact that nearly nobody considers Dylan a top-tier sprinter yet says a lot.

What's Ewan doing in that list? He will get crushed every time in a TDF sprint. Yeah he is maybe faster in the tour down under but that's it.

 

[Ruby United]

Of course, it's all subjective, but the list of riders faster than Groenewegen are:
Kittel, Cavendish, Demare, Sagan, Gaviria, Ewan
Viviani is as fast. EBH too - at least in terms of raw power.
This is probably the last year Greipel is on his level.

But the simple fact that nearly nobody considers Dylan a top-tier sprinter yet says a lot.

What's Ewan doing in that list? He will get crushed every time in a TDF sprint. Yeah he is maybe faster in the tour down under but that's it.

He's the worst of the bunch. I also think he is very overrated.
But, at the moment, he is better than Dylan.
Groenewegen has more potential, though, imo.
He's no Cav though. I am yet to see a young sprinter who reminds me of Cav at that age.
I don't know if we ever will.

 

[GP Blanco]

Re:

What a joke how De Gendt didn't get the Combativity.

Combativity is in my opinion not about going in useless brake away's on the flat stages. Did De Gendt make a meaningful move this year? No.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

What a joke how De Gendt didn't get the Combativity.

Combativity is in my opinion not about going in useless brake away's on the flat stages. Did De Gendt make a meaningful move this year? No.

I agree with this. So in that regard Barguil deserves it most.