Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

Watched it back several times, Cav went to follow Demare on the right (from the heli shot). Sagan then tries to go for the same gap but Cav ends up in a sandwich between the barrier and Sagans elbow.

Deliberate? No. Dangerous? Absolutely.

This :exclaim:

Cav was behind Sagan at the point of initial contact (Cav touched Sagan rear right). The elbow did not cause the crash, Cav and Sagan were already balancing/touching at that point.

Yes it looked like Cav became unbalance as he went alongside Sagan, however it was contact with the elbow which pushed him into the barrier, that's not acceptable regardless of who caused it.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

I think from this picture it is clear, that the elbow wasnt the cause of the crash, it is his reaction to keep the ballance and Cav is already going down.

I think whats more despicable is like everybody is already sure that it was intentional.

It's quite clear from the replays, which I have watched numerous times, that Sagan purposefully stuck out his elbow to prevent a rider passing.
Whether he knew it was Cav or intended to take the rider down is disputable. I think that the answer to that is no.
But he did try to prevent Cav passing him.

Nonesense. His was a reflex stimulated by Cav bumping into him. Watch it again. Demare goes toward the transenes, Sagan veers with him trying to get in his slipstream. The inertia and momentum were already in place, then Cav absurdly tries to thread the needle.

Of course much regret about Cav going down, but unfortunately he brought that upon himself.

Sagan veered after Cavendish had committed. It was very reckless

 

[infeXio]

The knee-jerking around here is comical

 

[Netserk]

Re:

I have a nice picture I want to post but how do I do it? Forum complaints about the size, 256kB, are you kidding me? And what does "Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached." means?

Upload and link to imgur.com

 

[Lexman]

Sagan says he didn't know Cav was behind him... what a joker that Sagan

 

[Leffe_Bruin]

PCS has Sagan on 30 seconds: http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Tour_de_France_2017_Stage_4

 

[8472]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

Sagan and Cav should both disqualified for dangerous sprinting. Also disqualify Demare for his dangerous block. 8 more of these sprint stages to come, hopefully in time most of the sprinters will be disqualified. The fewer the sprinters there are left in the race, and the less risk of GC riders getting involved in unnecessary crashes in these flat stages, and the more chance breakaway can win and finally add some excitement to this dull race.

 

[deValtos]

Yea Bouhanni on FranceTV seriously pissed with Demare right now.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

Re:

I have a nice picture I want to post but how do I do it? Forum complaints about the size, 256kB, are you kidding me? And what does "Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached." means?

always have the same problem and dont know how to go around....

 

[luckyboy]

I can't see a reason to relegate Sagan. His elbow clearly looks to be for stabilisation after Cavendish hits him.

If the relegation is for moving across the road then where is the penalty for the other riders?

 

[CyclingEnthusiast]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4atl-3Njwg

If you can all just watch from 0.52 - 0.56 of this video in 0.25x speed you will clearly see that Cavendish was following the barriers and Sagan moved over and elbowed him in. There's no need to complicate it, just watch the video.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Sagan already following Demare veering in the same diretion, thus Cav was crazy to try to slip between Sagan and the barrier.

Sagan went towards the barriers when Cav was already on his way inside (watch helicopter video).
Cav did nothing wrong here, that is 100% sure.

Sorry but Cav was behind, then tried to go inside, after Sagan had already been veering behind Demare in that direction.

 

[Gorecki]

Re: Re:

I think from this picture it is clear, that the elbow wasnt the cause of the crash, it is his reaction to keep the ballance and Cav is already going down.

I think whats more despicable is like everybody is already sure that it was intentional.

It's quite clear from the replays, which I have watched numerous times, that Sagan purposefully stuck out his elbow to prevent a rider passing.
Whether he knew it was Cav or intended to take the rider down is disputable. I think that the answer to that is no.
But he did try to prevent Cav passing him.

Cav has already bumped the right back of Sagan when trying to go through. Sagan is trying to keep his balance, sticks his elbow out.
The following split of a second the view is obstructed by the trees and the shadow.
Next thing we see is Cav going down, Sagan still trying to keep his balance, but there was no visible contact and DEFINITELY no intension.

Unfortunately, this will always be up to debate from now on, a dark spot on Sagans career. :Neutral:

 

[markene2]

Re:

Yea Bouhanni on FranceTV seriously pissed with Demare right now.

That i get, dangerous manouver by Demare, but no one mentions it.

On another note i dont think Cav starts tomorrow his shoulder is ***

 

[Vasilis]

Re: Re:

I think from this picture it is clear, that the elbow wasnt the cause of the crash, it is his reaction to keep the ballance and Cav is already going down.

I think whats more despicable is like everybody is already sure that it was intentional.

It's quite clear from the replays, which I have watched numerous times, that Sagan purposefully stuck out his elbow to prevent a rider passing.
Whether he knew it was Cav or intended to take the rider down is disputable. I think that the answer to that is no.
But he did try to prevent Cav passing him.

Cav hit Sagan first. Watch it from more angles.

Look here, it's Cav hitting Sagan's right side. Sagan flicked the elbow only after that:

Bad picture, I have a better one but I can't **** post it. Looks to me as if Sagan cut infront of Cav and thus causing the crash.

Maybe you can upload it elsewhere and provide a link.

 

[Ruby United]

Everyone posting pictures here, just watch the helicopter video replay.
One picture shows nothing and is confusing.
Just watch what happened.

 

[benzwire]

I don't know if that elbow was intentional or a reaction to keep balance. I have a feeling it was intentional (this coming from a fan of Sagan). I think Cav would have gone down without the elbow.

 

[Irondan]

Sagan relegated to 115th, plus a 30 second time penalty...

 

[loge1884]

watched this over and over now .. absolutely no intention to be detected ... dangerous? of course (from both Cav and Peter) .... if you want avoiding these kind of incidents, best would be to ban all sprint stages .....

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

Yea Bouhanni on FranceTV seriously pissed with Demare right now.

Classic Nacer.

Surely he knows that Démare had to pass Kristoff, right?

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Sagan already following Demare veering in the same diretion, thus Cav was crazy to try to slip between Sagan and the barrier.

Sagan went towards the barriers when Cav was already on his way inside (watch helicopter video).
Cav did nothing wrong here, that is 100% sure.

Sorry but Cav was behind, then tried to go inside, after Sagan had already been veering behind Demare in that direction.

Pretty sure the order of events was reversed

 

[infeXio]

Re:

Everyone posting pictures here, just watch the helicopter video replay.
One picture shows nothing and is confusing.
Just watch what happened.

You know just as little about the intent as any of us.

 

[Billie]

What demare did to Bouhanni is the most obvious example of DSQ possible. Clearly changes his line and clearly forces the other rider to hold up

 

[fantomas]

Re:

PCS has Sagan on 30 seconds: http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Tour_de_France_2017_Stage_4

And Cav at 3:57, which is obviously ***, so...

 

[Breh]

Seems like almost everyone was doing something wrong in that sprint. That crash at the 1km mark kinda triggered all this. 0 organisation is not good for sprints.