Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

[deValtos]

Lets just award Greipel the win tbh. I think everyone can get on board with that?

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

Sorry but Cav was behind, then tried to go inside, after Sagan had already been veering behind Demare in that direction.

Cav was already along side him when he pinched the inside (reason he flinched). When he went for the inside pass the gap was more than wide enough. Clear as day.
Unintentional by Sagan, but still not clean.
Cav did nothing wrong here and was unlucky.

First of all, it's terrible to see any rider go down at those speeds. But I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't see the gap you do. I mean that's tight. Cav took a huge risk, especially since Sagan and Demare had been moving in that direction just before he tried to pass.

Watch the picture:
http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg

 

[alspacka]

You could make a case for penalising literally everyone involved in that sprint. Just a total mess.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

What demare did to Bouhanni is the most obvious example of DSQ possible. Clearly changes his line and clearly forces the other rider to hold up

Nonsense. Demare was going way faster, passed Bouhanni, then contested for the win. Yes, he changed his line a third of a second too early, misjudged that he wasn't clear yet, but that DQ talk is nonsense. Bouhanni was not going to win, he's just sour grapes. Demare takes the win and the jersey in Nacer's hometown...it hurts...

Nacer keeps whining. Like at the Nationals. As always...Nacer being Nacer...

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

Bouhanni would have been DQed for what Demare did and jailed for what Sagan did

HAHAHAHA So true!

:lol: :lol: truer words have never been spoken! Even though Nacer has built himself a reputation, it was over the top to listen to the commentators on TV2, who immediately blamed him :sad:

Lol what? Out of all of that Bouhanni was the one that got the blame? :lol: Comon ...

 

[Vroome.exe]

Re: Re:

This is all I needed it to see



Remember who was the guy who destroyed Haussler career?

Yep that's Sagan riding into Cav who's trying to stay upright after being pushed. And I don't remember Sagan destroying Haussler's career.

 

[KnightBg]

Re:

The elbow should be enough for relegation. Cav shouldn't have gone for that gap but I think Sagan knew he was there. I've watched the video a few times -- Demare was OK, just trying to make space, Sagan was fine in following but Cav should have gone left at that point.

But the elbow should not have been flicked, whether that took him down or not it sure looks intentional.

Not defending anyone , but imagine riding with 60 km/h and someone bump your torso... what will your reaction be ? I still doubt that Sagan is doing this intentionaly , because Cav bump into him first with his head.

 

[alspacka]

Re:

Lets just award Greipel the win tbh. I think everyone can get on board with that?

Nope, he veered right too. DSQ all round!

 

[carton]

Re:

I can't see a reason to relegate Sagan. His elbow clearly looks to be for stabilisation after Cavendish hits him.

If the relegation is for moving across the road then where is the penalty for the other riders?

Human nature. They usually don't penalize you if nothing happens. It's why despite enjoying the football player vs cyclist meme, I have some (not much) sympathy for football players. You can get elbowed in the face, if you don't roll over like you've been shot, 99% of referees do nothing. C'est la vie.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

What demare did to Bouhanni is the most obvious example of DSQ possible. Clearly changes his line and clearly forces the other rider to hold up

Nonsense. Demare was going way faster, passed Bouhanni, then contested for the win. Yes, he changed his line a third of a second too early, misjudged that he wasn't clear yet, but that DQ talk is nonsense. Bouhanni was not going to win, he's just sour grapes. Demare takes the win and the jersey in Nacer's hometown...it hurts...

Nacer keeps whining. Like at the Nationals. As always...Nacer being Nacer...

No one's saying Demare wasn't the fastest guy at the end but that move was pretty damn bad if you ask me. Straight up swerves into another riders wheel when he has a clear line at the finish, I mean there's no excuse for that.

 

[Aimar16]

There was no elbow and no space. Cavandish hit Sagan and Sagan lost his balance. Cavandish robbed Sagan to challenge for victory

Frame-by-frame

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

Watch it again!

I have, a few times. Respectfully, I think your account is inaccurate. Sagan was in front, Cav bumps his torso, Sagan sticks out his shoulder. I think they should both be relegated, but I just think they should police sprinting more tightly, not just when crashes happen. In any case it's more Cav's fault than Sagan's, IMHO.

The torso bumping is Cav's way of creating space where there is none and the elbow flicking appears to be Sagan's way of denying space but everybody was moving towards the barriers following Demare. GC neutralization at 10k

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Re: Re:

This is all I needed it to see



Remember who was the guy who destroyed Haussler career?

Yep that's Sagan riding into Cav who's trying to stay upright after being pushed. And I don't remember Sagan destroying Haussler's career.

No, it's Cav's shoulder hitting Sagan's elbow. If you look at front wheels and their shadows, both bikes are now side by side and there's no space for Mark. Sagan's elbow in a natural position.

 

[ontheroad]

It will make the green jersey race very interesting now if nothing else, Sagan apparently deducted 80 points.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

Lets just award Greipel the win tbh. I think everyone can get on board with that?

Nope, he veered right too. DSQ all round!

Right well screw it, I'll take one for the cyclingnews forum team and claim the victory on stage 4 for myself.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Lets just award Greipel the win tbh. I think everyone can get on board with that?

Hell no ...free for you to start a "moral winner" thread ...Demare won. He was the strongest.

Allez Nono!!!

 

[Irondan]

ammattipyöräily‏ @ammattipyoraily 1m1 minute ago
More
According Tissot results, Sagan penaltized for 80 points in Green Jersey competition. Sagan 95 -> 15 points. #TDF2017

 

[arvc40]

Sagan will have sense of guilt when he lines up tomorrow, maybe. Fines and penalties not nessicary.

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

Sorry but Cav was behind, then tried to go inside, after Sagan had already been veering behind Demare in that direction.

Cav was already along side him when he pinched the inside (reason he flinched). When he went for the inside pass the gap was more than wide enough. Clear as day.
Unintentional by Sagan, but still not clean.
Cav did nothing wrong here and was unlucky.

First of all, it's terrible to see any rider go down at those speeds. But I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't see the gap you do. I mean that's tight. Cav took a huge risk, especially since Sagan and Demare had been moving in that direction just before he tried to pass.

Watch the picture:
http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg

Exactly. He is already past his rear wheel and there is plenty of room. Then he gets pinned inside.
Cav did nothing wrong (for once).

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

Lets just award Greipel the win tbh. I think everyone can get on board with that?

Hell no ...free for you to start a "moral winner" thread ...Demare won. He was the strongest.

Allez Nono!!!

You can still be the strongest rider and make a dangerous move in the sprint.

 

[Valv.Piti]

If natural position is stretched out into Cav, then yes, it was in a natural position. Nothing to see there.

 

[rick james]

Re:

Sagan will have sense of guilt when he lines up tomorrow, maybe. Fines and penalties not nessicary.

so because he feels bad he shouldn't get a penalty?

 

[BigMac]

It's almost as if Sagan stuck his elbow out to try to keep balance, he seems to have been touched by Cavendish.


I can feel no sympathy whatsoever for Cav, he is reckless and I've lost count on all the crashes he's caused: Kittel, Gerrans...

 

[rehy90]

Re: Re:

This is all I needed it to see



Remember who was the guy who destroyed Haussler career?

Yep that's Sagan riding into Cav who's trying to stay upright after being pushed. And I don't remember Sagan destroying Haussler's career.

I see Sagan on Demare's wheel and there is no elbow yet. It is also clear that Mark is trying to make space and is leaning into Sagan. The elbow came after Mark was going down. Very unfortunate accident, but only and accident. They were both trying to follow the fastest rider who was going to the right.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

ammattipyöräily‏ @ammattipyoraily 1m1 minute ago
More
According Tissot results, Sagan penaltized for 80 points in Green Jersey competition. Sagan 95 -> 15 points. #TDF2017

Yep, relegated to back of front group and loses thirty seconds, and chances of a sixth green jersey greatly diminished.