Tour de France 2019

[Andy262]

Movistar should have been looking at a podium with Landa. Incomprehensible that he wasn't top 5. Clueless approach, yet again.

As a result Ineos have ended up 1-2 without any real pressure. Race fell in their lap. But surely it's time for Poels to lead another team. It's crap watching very capable riders give their best years in service of the choo-choo.

Tragedy of the race was losing Pinot, who had looked in such good form.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

Did the riders fly to Paris on Saturday evening or do they go early on Sunday?

Are they on a chartered plane or planes or do they go Ryanair?

Around noon Sunday.
Dunno about the flights, but I'd assume chartered.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Movistar should have been looking at a podium with Landa. Incomprehensible that he wasn't top 5. Clueless approach, yet again.

As a result Ineos have ended up 1-2 without any real pressure. Race fell in their lap. But surely it's time for Poels to lead another team. It's crap watching very capable riders give their best years in service of the choo-choo.

Tragedy of the race was losing Pinot, who had looked in such good form.

Kruisjwijk was as strong as Landa uphill this race, maybe Landa was 1% better, but he wasn't really convincing. When you have a better time trial, a better TTT and a further headstart at 2 minutes due to Barguil taking Landa out, its flat out impossible for Landa to finish ahead of Steven K. Then you have the two Ineos guys.

Yeah, aint gonna happen.

 

[wirral]

Re: Re:

Did the riders fly to Paris on Saturday evening or do they go early on Sunday?

Are they on a chartered plane or planes or do they go Ryanair?

Around noon Sunday.
Dunno about the flights, but I'd assume chartered.

Thanks. It seems hectic. But I suppose a plane is not that different from a bus to get to the start.

 

[larzi]

Re: Re:

Kruisjwijk was as strong as Landa uphill this race, maybe Landa was 1% better, but he wasn't really convincing. When you have a better time trial, a better TTT and a further headstart at 2 minutes due to Barguil taking Landa out, its flat out impossible for Landa to finish ahead of Steven K. Then you have the two Ineos guys.

Yeah, aint gonna happen.

Landa usually loses time in the first third of a Grand Tour. Then he is given free reign for attacks until he approaches the podium. Spectacular - but not very efficient.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Landa was worse than Kruijswijk on some climbs like Tourmalet and was also dropped at Iseran before he ultimately came back. And was better at some others. I don't think they differed much.

In the end he has to stop dropping time at random places if he ever wants to podium a GT again

 

[therealthing]

Re:

Did the riders fly to Paris on Saturday evening or do they go early on Sunday?

Are they on a chartered plane or planes or do they go Ryanair?

It's a chartered Hop Air service

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

Did the riders fly to Paris on Saturday evening or do they go early on Sunday?

Are they on a chartered plane or planes or do they go Ryanair?

It's a chartered Hop Air service

Haven’t they gone TGV in the past? Lyon to Paris is only 2 hours.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Did the riders fly to Paris on Saturday evening or do they go early on Sunday?

Are they on a chartered plane or planes or do they go Ryanair?

It's a chartered Hop Air service

Haven’t they gone TGV in the past? Lyon to Paris is only 2 hours.

Yes they used the TGV more than a few times.

 

[Finn84]

Re: Re:

Did the riders fly to Paris on Saturday evening or do they go early on Sunday?

Are they on a chartered plane or planes or do they go Ryanair?

It's a chartered Hop Air service

Haven’t they gone TGV in the past? Lyon to Paris is only 2 hours.

Yes they used the TGV more than a few times.

I think the method of transport depend where they end the penultimate stage. (or 3rd last in case of route design of 2012 where penultimate day had TT near Paris)

 

[carton]

So today in random things that almost worked out: 4 out of the 5 stage winners of the 2013 Tour de L'Avenir were here today, accounting for 6 out of the 7 stages (not counting the prologue) at L'Avenir, and 6 stage wins at this Tour (Valgren 1→0, Alaphilippe 1→1, Yates 2→2, Ewan 2→3). The 2013 L'Avenir stage winner that wasn't here was the man who won the overall, Ruben Fernandez, who was 12 days younger then than Bernal is today.

 

[Andy262]

Re:

Landa was worse than Kruijswijk on some climbs like Tourmalet and was also dropped at Iseran before he ultimately came back. And was better at some others. I don't think they differed much.

In the end he has to stop dropping time at random places if he ever wants to podium a GT again

Sure, but if Movistar would ride with the focus and discipline of Ineos then surely Landa is in the mix. Instead they ride like a herd of cats.

 

[Big Doopie]

...perhaps now that they have got their tiny climber as overall winner, perhaps they can put back some balance in the course design.

...how exciting it would have been had bernal had 4 minutes to make up due to loses in ITTs, not 1.5. then ineos and he would have been forced to attack from further. he would have been forced to express his immense talent over longer attacks (something we have all been pining for).

When you so bastardize what a GT is supposed to actually test, you end up diminishing the value and excitement.

For the time that their was balance (until the Alps), the race was exciting. But then you put three straight days with 2000+ meter climbs and no ITT to offset... it started to suck and become predictable.

please do not get me wrong, i believe that bernal is uniquely talented and deserving of (at least eventually) winning a GT or many. But he should have to do it on a course that produces challenges to his natural abilities.

if they do not make changes, bernal could string together a record number of GTs, because right now GTs are disproportionately tailored to small climbers.

Check out the last three GT winners.

These are not the historical/traditional norm of the GT winner. TT-ing is also a skill. And one that was always called the "race of truth" because there was no hiding behind a train.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

...how exciting it would have been had bernal had 4 minutes to make up due to loses in ITTs, not 1.5. then ineos and he would have been forced to attack from further. he would have been forced to express his immense talent over longer attacks (something we have all been pining for).

No, he wouldn't have done squat because G would have been WAY in front of him. Bernal would have played super dom, we would have had a close to normal Ineos train, and G would have won handily.

DD made a mistake in not bringing Cav. He would have made the news even if he failed miserably

Yeah, he likely would have had a DNS or DNF fairly early but it would have provided more of a story and more pub than everything they actually did do combined.

 

[Big Doopie]

Re: Re:

No, he wouldn't have done squat because G would have been WAY in front of him. Bernal would have played super dom, we would have had a close to normal Ineos train, and G would have won handily.

well...that is another issue that requires other solutions. the fact that bernal and thomas are on the same team has nothing to do with the bastardized version of GT courses in present cycling. these so radically favor the small climber type that you no longer even need to time trial decently to win a GT.

again, check out the last three GT winners. all break drastically from the historic norm of GTs testing the best all-rounder, not a one-trick-pony. and that is a dire shame.

 

[houtdffan]

Re: Re:

...how exciting it would have been had bernal had 4 minutes to make up due to loses in ITTs, not 1.5. then ineos and he would have been forced to attack from further. he would have been forced to express his immense talent over longer attacks (something we have all been pining for).

No, he wouldn't have done squat because G would have been WAY in front of him. Bernal would have played super dom, we would have had a close to normal Ineos train, and G would have won handily.

DD made a mistake in not bringing Cav. He would have made the news even if he failed miserably

Yeah, he likely would have had a DNS or DNF fairly early but it would have provided more of a story and more pub than everything they actually did do combined.

or would Thomas have been dropped from further out if riders like Pinot were attacking earlier in the Pyrenees, allowing Bernal to gain even more time following Pinot?

 

[houtdffan]

that said, I agree that there needs to be a more balanced course. You can still have a course that favors climbers that has more than 100km of flat TT. Just see the 2007 route where the stage that crossed the Port de Pailheres and finished at Plateau de Beille was the EASY stage of the 3. Climbers were easily able to gain back their TT losses, if they managed to mitigate them in the TT

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Thank God, only two days to go until "O festival dos Watts".

So only a small Tour blues this year.

 

[movingtarget]

I have a feeling that Prudhomme will stick with this format pretty much. Hard to see the TT kms being increased.

 

[canarydan23]

Re:

I have a feeling that Prudhomme will stick with this format pretty much. Hard to see the TT kms being increased.

I think you might be right. In fairness, but for Pinot's desperately unfortunate injury and the freak weather ruining stages 19 and 20, this Tour would have had an absolutely epic finale.

It'll either be similar to this year's format, unless they are feeling completely brazen and design a route ideally suited to Alaphilippe with zero high mountains just to finally get that French victory. I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[Red Rick]

The days of 100km of ITTs in a GT route being "balanced" are over, but having under 30km is just stupid. I think the ideal range is probably between 50-60km, more if much of the ITT mileage is so technical it decreases the gaps.

Also, what can be a balanced route differs a lot between the GTs. The Giro can actually put in much more and still make it work because their mountain stages are much more bonkers.

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

I have a feeling that Prudhomme will stick with this format pretty much. Hard to see the TT kms being increased.

Wouldn't putting more TT's in make it more attacking? It would force the likes of Bardet etc who can't TT as well as the likes of Dumo etc to attack where it suits them.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

I have a feeling that Prudhomme will stick with this format pretty much. Hard to see the TT kms being increased.

Wouldn't putting more TT's in make it more attacking? It would force the likes of Bardet etc who can't TT as well as the likes of Dumo etc to attack where it suits them.

Obviously. But that's not the point.

 

[ppanther92]

Re: Re:

I have a feeling that Prudhomme will stick with this format pretty much. Hard to see the TT kms being increased.

Wouldn't putting more TT's in make it more attacking? It would force the likes of Bardet etc who can't TT as well as the likes of Dumo etc to attack where it suits them.

Yes but still it would decrease the chances for a french tour winner (ok, Alaphilippe would probably have actually profited this year). So i do not see an increase happening. But i agree that there should be 50-60km of ITTs to make it more balanced.

 

[Leinster]

This year's ITT was essentially a lap of a circuit for which, if it were held as a circuit race like the ladies did, Alaphilippe would have been favourite. So in hindsight, his TT win shouldn't have been a shock.

In the 80s and 90s, a combined total (ITT, MTT and TTT) of 200+kms was not unheard of. "Why break out the pointy hats and disc wheels for less than an hour in the saddle?" would have been the refrain. Such numbers in the Ineos era would just give a 3-4 minute headstart to the likes of Froome and Thomas over almost any other recent contenders, though. Dumoulin and Roglic would have to ride the Tour if those numbers did happen.