Tour de France 2020 | Stage 16 (La Tour-du-Pin - Villard-de-Lans, 164 km)

[richwallone]

Alaphillippe changing his bike for every 1km.

Switching between clinchers and tubeless setup

 

[Netserk]

I definitely think Loze is a good case for hardest ever Tour climb. It has more than 400 m more of vertical gain than Portet (and slightly higher altitude). It'll probably take ~65 minutes to climb for the best. Even without the last 5 km, it is still a HC climb.

The profile index of cyclingcols mostly get things right, but it has two flaws. It ignores altitude; and by scoring each km individually, it ignores descents and flat parts, so it favours inconsistent climbs, even if they have large portions of flat. It also means that it ignores the distribution of steepness, while climbs with a steep beginning are more likely to be ridden harder.

Personally I think it's best to take the average of a climb's profile index and its overall vertical gain times overall average gradient, and then also note the altitude.

True, but I do think cyclingcols rates length of a climb a bit too highly, at least in terms of what's difficult for a modern peloton. Steeper climbs just get raced harder while a 30km climb at 5% that would be rated pretty highly by the cyclingcols metric would probably be softpedalled and passed by a 100 men peloton.

I disagree. If consistent, that would give a score of 750, about half of Loze. I think it rather overvalues the super steep stuff (12+ %). And if ridden hard, Envalira can definitely see gaps.

But maybe you also think Letras is an easy climb?

 

[bob.a.feet]

Fun fact: Ineos are winless in their last 108 GT stages. That is the longest current streak of any WT team.

The only other WT team who haven't won more recently is Israel, who have only been WT for a year.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Fun fact: Ineos are winless in their last 108 GT stages. That is the longest current streak of any WT team.

The only other WT team who haven't won more recently is Israel, who have only been WT for a year.

That must be not counting TTs?

Froome won Stage 18 (ITT) in 2016.

Edit:

My bad, I read it as "Tour stages"

 

[pink_jersey]

That must be not counting TTs?

Froome won Stage 18 (ITT) in 2016.

Edit:

My bad, I read it as "Tour stages"

Thomas won 2back to back stages in 2018. Those were their last wins.

 

[ppanther92]

That must be not counting TTs?

Froome won Stage 18 (ITT) in 2016.

Edit: My bad, I read it as "Tour stages"

21*3 GT stages per year. 2019, 2018, 2017. Thats not the last win even.

 

[ppanther92]

Thomas won 2back to back stages in 2018, as well.

That should be the last one.

 

[Brullnux]

You know, we actually have all the information in the world available to make a sound analysis in 2020. It aint that hard. I dont need to have done the climb

Here's the thing though about the Loze - it's a rare occasion in which we don't really have all the information. At least, with the exception of a climb analysis in which the gradient shifts every 50m. Because of the weird way it was paved, people who have ridden it have really stressed that it's irregular to an mtb level, beyond the normal 1km on 1km off, to a point where its genuinely very difficult to have any rhythm at all.

 

[Sciatic]

That must be not counting TTs?

Froome won Stage 18 (ITT) in 2016.

Edit:

My bad, I read it as "Tour stages"

? 3 GTs/yr = 63 stages/yr. How is 2016 relevant to Bob’s post?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Here's the thing though about the Loze - it's a rare occasion in which we don't really have all the information. At least, with the exception of a climb analysis in which the gradient shifts every 50m. Because of the weird way it was paved, people who have ridden it have really stressed that it's irregular to an mtb level, beyond the normal 1km on 1km off, to a point where its genuinely very difficult to have any rhythm at all.

i've heard that Sampeyre is the same, really irregular.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Jesus people, 3 in a row who don't read what they quote?

 

[BlueRoads]

I always get so jealous hearing the climbs people in other countries ride. In Ireland, our hardest climb is probably Mount Leinster... 13km @ 6%!

This is a list of the highest mountains in the Netherlands. It's in German, but the pictures should speak for themselves.

Fotos: Niederlande: Das sind die zehn höchsten Berge

Holland liegt in den Alpen – diese Rangliste beweist es. ..

rp-online.de

 

[Bolder]

Here's the thing though about the Loze - it's a rare occasion in which we don't really have all the information. At least, with the exception of a climb analysis in which the gradient shifts every 50m. Because of the weird way it was paved, people who have ridden it have really stressed that it's irregular to an mtb level, beyond the normal 1km on 1km off, to a point where its genuinely very difficult to have any rhythm at all.

I would actually love to give the Loze ascent a go -- it's rare-ish to have new paved climbs in the Alps. Maybe next spring once the snow melts...

Like a lot of us, I've ridden a fair number of the TdF climbs, at least in the Alps. My thought at the top of EVERY cat 1 and HC is "I'm really glad I'm not racing up this after 15 stages and 150 km." The Loze profile, regular or not, just looks miserable.

 

[BlueRoads]

I consider myself more of a Mads Pedersen type.

 

[Red Rick]

I definitely think Loze is a good case for hardest ever Tour climb. It has more than 400 m more of vertical gain than Portet (and slightly higher altitude). It'll probably take ~65 minutes to climb for the best. Even without the last 5 km, it is still a HC climb.

The profile index of cyclingcols mostly get things right, but it has two flaws. It ignores altitude; and by scoring each km individually, it ignores descents and flat parts, so it favours inconsistent climbs, even if they have large portions of flat. It also means that it ignores the distribution of steepness, while climbs with a steep beginning are more likely to be ridden harder.

Personally I think it's best to take the average of a climb's profile index and its overall vertical gain times overall average gradient, and then also note the altitude.



This is just false. If consistent, that would give a score of 750, about half of Loze. I think it rather overvalues the super steep stuff (12+ %). And if ridden hard, Envalira can definitely see gaps.

But maybe you also think Letras is an easy climb?

I think just about every fixed formula ignores so much context it's in. In my opinion the disadvantage a lone rider has over a strong team until the final 5km is pretty disqualifying. Col de Portet had none of that and Quintana launched the winning attack on the bottom slopes. Now that doesn't mean AdH type clibms are all harder but I definitely think the Col de Portet is harder.

I think the most important trait of a climb is probably the altitude gain on a climb that happens on gradients over 9% or something. Preferably not before too many stretches of 6% and lower where team strength is quite dominant.

Now 2 big questions I'd have are the actual importance of altitude and how it matters. The stage in question only goes above 2000m for 3km or probably 11-12 minutes, so I don't think it's that important. The 2nd part for me is the effect of climbing longer distances under threshold values, and I think if they go under riders won't be that affected by earlier efforts on the final parts of the climb. It's what the entire tactic of bludgeoning a climb with a strong team and strong leader is about that everyone else blows up but your team leader.

Jumbo won't blow up Roglic, UAE can't blow up Roglic.

 

[Sciatic]

Back issues for Bernal

 

[Broccolidwarf]

The heavier guys should have attacked sooner, now they are probably all getting dropped on the climb.

 

[bob.a.feet]

This is a list of the highest mountains in the Netherlands. It's in German, but the pictures should speak for themselves.

Fotos: Niederlande: Das sind die zehn höchsten Berge

Holland liegt in den Alpen – diese Rangliste beweist es. ..

rp-online.de

The Vrouwenheide does look quite nice, but that might be my love of windmills.

 

[perico]

Back issues for Bernal

Could just be sitting up to lose time so he can win tomorrow.

 

[Brullnux]

The profile looks miserable for sure, and it would be a very hard climb regardless, but that's where i think the 'hardest ever tour climb' claims are coming from. The kilometres that are labelled as 10% or 12% aren't a mortirolo esque grind, but essentially like a ski run going down: just loads of pitches of 15% or so, then back down, then back up etc. Hard to measure on most profiles, is there a detailed one which goes down to 100m, or is there too much margin for error on that?

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Bernal
&
Bennett
forming the gruppetto

 

[RedheadDane]

I consider myself more of a Mads Pedersen type.

Then at least you're good at something!

 

[Brumdog66]

A chance for Bernal to make new friends

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I hope Bernal is saving everything for a big attack for a stage win tomorrow.

If he drops a lot of time today, he can go on Madeleine.

Otherwise we are watching a broken man

 

[Devil's Elbow]

It's sad to see the defending champion like this.