Tour de France 2020 | Stage 16 (La Tour-du-Pin - Villard-de-Lans, 164 km)

[Eclipse]

Who do you think will win the stage? Barguil? Carapaz? Rolland?

See no reason to think Carapaz won't win from this group. Maybe Kamna has the legs but he already got done by one Colombian climber

e: i am a clown but the broad notion stands

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Christ, if he said that its the hardest climb the Tour has EVER done, not just a MTF, that makes it even more wrong. Do you know what hype is and do you know what interests a network such as TV2 has in doing that?

I'm sure it's possible you know better

 

[Breezy1985]

Vaughters set up can be a great situation for a certain type of rider- Rolland was not that type of rider.

Always felt off to me. Maybe he was too French for an American team in my eyes

 

[Gigs_98]

I actually think the profile of the Col de la Loze looks possibly a tiny bit harder than the Col de Portet, but it's really difficult to say. The Italian side of the Agnello, the north side of the Galibier (if you see it as one climb) or the Ventoux are also very comparable but it's fair to say the Col de la Loze is among the most difficult.

The crucial thing in this sort of discussion is though, imo the profiles say a lot more than a guy who says something on TV. Juan Antonio Fletcher usually calls ten climbs the hardest climb of the giro every year, the guys who say this sort of stuff might not have ridden every other contender for hardest TdF climb, and even if they did their condition might have been very different. Just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true.

 

[bob.a.feet]

See no reason to think Carapaz won't win from this group. Maybe Kamna has the legs but he already got done by one Colombian climber

Carapaz is from Ecuador.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I'm sure it's possible you know better

Oh yes, nonchalant non-answer and a stupid emoji. Just as expected

 

[Brumdog66]

I actually think the profile of the Col de la Loze looks possibly a tiny bit harder than the Col de Portet, but it's really difficult to say. The Italian side of the Agnello, the north side of the Galibier (if you see it as one climb) or the Ventoux are also very comparable but it's fair to say the Col de la Loze is among the most difficult.

The crucial thing in this sort of discussion is though, imo the profiles say a lot more than a guy who says something on TV. Juan Antonio Fletcher usually calls ten climbs the hardest climb of the giro every year, the guys who say this sort of stuff might not have ridden every other contender for hardest TdF climb, and even if they did their condition might have been very different. Just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true.

This and also forgot Ventoux I'd say thats the hardest and is only ever ridden as a uniclimb

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Christ, if he said that its the hardest climb the Tour has EVER done, not just a MTF, that makes it even more wrong. Do you know what hype is and do you know what interests a network such as TV2 has in doing that?

If we're talking objective measures of difficulty... Cyclingcols have Loze as the third-hardest climb in France, behind Telegraphe-Galibier and the unraceable Parpaillon. Portet is down in 11th behind, amongst others, Ventoux from Bedoin and Val Thorens. If we're counting Telegraphe as a separate climb, Loze is the hardest Tour de France climb ever by this measure.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Oh yes, nonchalant non-answer and a stupid emoji. Just as expected

If you like, I can recite the definition of insanity to you

 

[RedheadDane]

Carapaz is from Ecuador.

So, only fitting that he'd be done by an Ecuadorian climber this time.

 

[Red Rick]

They should make it illegal, somehow, I dont know how though. But commentators are just noticing it and feels its the most natural thing in the worlds. Its such a stupid thing to do, it really hampers the racing and since Prudhomme in theory should be all about exciting racing, thats something he should look into, no? Or is it such a big part of the sport that its impossible at this point?

I think it should just be time penalties for all riders on team if you do it.

 

[Red Rick]

And guys

Col de la Loze is literally the easiest categorized climb on the stage it's in.

 

[Gigs_98]

If we're talking objective measures of difficulty... Cyclingcols have Loze as the third-hardest climb in France, behind Telegraphe-Galibier and the unraceable Parpaillon. Portet is down in 11th behind, amongst others, Ventoux from Bedoin and Val Thorens. If we're counting Telegraphe as a separate climb, Loze is the hardest Tour de France climb ever by this measure.

True, but I do think cyclingcols rates length of a climb a bit too highly, at least in terms of what's difficult for a modern peloton. Steeper climbs just get raced harder while a 30km climb at 5% that would be rated pretty highly by the cyclingcols metric would probably be softpedalled and passed by a 100 men peloton.

This and also forgot Ventoux I'd say thats the hardest and is only ever ridden as a uniclimb

The Ventoux is actually a pass so really the ASO is the only one to blame for the fact that we've never seen double Ventoux

 

[perico]

Always felt off to me. Maybe he was too French for an American team in my eyes

Different training style and lack of freedom to ride your own race for one.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Climbbybike has Loze as the third hardest climb in France and the hardest the Tour had ever done (n France at least, I'm not totally sure which climbs they're done outside their own border). I do however agree with Gigs, that it doesn't really mean that much what a commentator says.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I actually think the profile of the Col de la Loze looks possibly a tiny bit harder than the Col de Portet, but it's really difficult to say. The Italian side of the Agnello, the north side of the Galibier (if you see it as one climb) or the Ventoux are also very comparable but it's fair to say the Col de la Loze is among the most difficult.

The crucial thing in this sort of discussion is though, imo the profiles say a lot more than a guy who says something on TV. Juan Antonio Fletcher usually calls ten climbs the hardest climb of the giro every year, the guys who say this sort of stuff might not have ridden every other contender for hardest TdF climb, and even if they did their condition might have been very different. Just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true.

Very much agree with this. Its obviously one of the hardest climbs ridden, but the problem is stating that "well, former rider, he knows a lot more than any of us" us is just flat out laughable in my opinion. That said, Chris Anker is obviously a much better analyst than Flecha, but him saying that doesnt mean anything to me. I can see myself that Loze is an extremely hard climb, but the insane gaps some might expect most likely wont be there as the climb is constructed in a very back-loaded way. Meribel in itself is a relatively easy climb for the best climbers in the peloton, and then you have those 5-6 very hard kms in altitude which obviously will make a difference.

And yes, I do think Portet is a harder climb and I do think that Agnello is a harder climb. I could even argue that Loze isnt even the hardest climb of the day. Its obviously close, Loze is up there, but my point just is that its so wrong just to take everything that these former riders say for granted without looking at the stuff yourself.

 

[Eclipse]

Good lord it's Bradley Wiggins the voice of reason :O

 

[Red Rick]

True, but I do think cyclingcols rates length of a climb a bit too highly, at least in terms of what's difficult for a modern peloton. Steeper climbs just get raced harder while a 30km climb at 5% that would be rated pretty highly by the cyclingcols metric would probably be softpedalled and passed by a 100 men peloton.


The Ventoux is actually a pass so really the ASO is the only one to blame for the fact that we've never seen double Ventoux

I don't need a double Ventoux. Ventoux is fine as unipuerto descent finish, or as lead in climb for this

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Ewan off the back again, restarting his small group cyclotourism holiday with tour guide Roger Kluge

 

[Broccolidwarf]

but my point just is that its so wrong just to take everything that these former riders say for granted without looking at the stuff yourself.

You sure do have a vivid imagination, when it comes to fantasizing about what other people may think or do, irrespective of them having given no indication of that

 

[fuiers]

Alaphillippe changing his bike for every 1km.

 

[Gigs_98]

You sure do have a vivid imagination, when it comes to fantasizing about what other people may think, irrespective of them having given no indication of that

Just know, that your posts are pissing off more people than just Valv.Piti

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I think Porte has spent 80 % of this Tour on Pedersens wheel

 

[Devil's Elbow]

True, but I do think cyclingcols rates length of a climb a bit too highly, at least in terms of what's difficult for a modern peloton. Steeper climbs just get raced harder while a 30km climb at 5% that would be rated pretty highly by the cyclingcols metric would probably be softpedalled and passed by a 100 men peloton.

That's fair, I also certainly wouldn't rate Val Thorens over Portet. Even so, Loze is a legitimate contender for hardest Tour de France climb ever, at least if we're counting Telegraphe and Galibier separately as I'd argue its altitude and sheer elevation gain set it apart. It depends completely on what weight you're giving to different metrics and hence there's no single correct answer imo.

 

[Brumdog66]

I don't need a double Ventoux. Ventoux is fine as unipuerto descent finish, or as lead in climb for this

If that's actually a usable climb at the foot of Ventoux it's a crime they haven't used it