Tour de France 2020 | Stage 8 (Gazeres-sur-Geronne - Loudenvielle

[Libertine Seguros]

People complain so much about Roglic but Bernal is the epitome of boredom.

Bernal is actually a good comparison for Rogla actually.

Rogla was a super interesting, combative climber in smaller races in Eastern and Central Europe and further afield riding for Adria Mobil, who a few people slept on because he was older than the usual prospect not realising how new he was to cycling, and who lit up mountain stages in small races and clearly deserved the step up. Since going to the top level he's joined a team that has become a strangling force of strong riders, and has ceased to be an attacking, combative rider and has relied on final km burst and his TT skills primarily as they've looked to coach his former mercurial style out of him to maximise results as a pro.

Bernal was a super interesting, combative climber in smaller races in Eastern and Central Europe and further afield riding for Androni, and there was something of an expected bidding war for him as he lit up mountain stages in small races and clearly deserved the step up. Since going to the top level he's joined a team that has become a strangling force of strong riders. He has still managed to win races by being a mercurial, creative climber, but when out of form he becomes conservative as they've looked to coach his former ambitions out of him to maximise his results as a pro.

Bernal is also perhaps a lot like Quintana, who keeps getting slated as a negative rider despite that in almost every race he's had the form he has picked one or two stages to go from afar and lit them up, and he's also rescued a couple of bad GTs with stage wins late on, such as the last two years in the Tour de France. Quintana is a far more interesting rider than people are willing to acknowledge a lot of the time, due to a couple of examples of real passivity on high-profile occasions that have either cost him, or where people were relying on him to upset the Sky train and he simply couldn't do it.

This is also why I hope Tadej Pogačar never signs for a superteam, because I don't want that exuberance to be coached out of him and replaced with the same paralysing fear of losing that the big team coaches seem to instil in their riders.

 

[perico]

only it basically cost them dumo.

i don't think it was a strategy to have him drop so soon.

He’s hurting as well after his crash.

 

[ice&fire]

Expect another breakaway to take the stage tomorrow - Think if Quintana keeps in touch for the next week, he can do some damage in the third week.

He's doomed to finish second with the feeling that he would win in the fourth week

 

[Big Doopie]

He’s hurting as well after his crash.

when did kuss crash? i must have missed that...

 

[broppo]

roglic even more of a favourite now according to the bookies, him winning the tour only pays out 1.6 surprisingly.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

only it basically cost them dumo.

i don't think it was a strategy to have him drop so soon.

Oh, it definitely wasn't. I was just being facetious about Kuss' comments a couple of days ago. His crash was in stage 5, btw.

 

[Leinster]

I can think only of one rider who attacks when he doesn't have the legs, Nibali.

Alaphilippe today, tbf.

 

[75Driver]

+25:00 Pinot

Did he win the lanterne rouge today?

 

[Forever The Best]

@Libertine Seguros Bernal was pretty aggressive in last years Tour. This Tour he simply does not have the legs at the moment. He was probably having an awful day on Lusette and he looked bad in Peyresourde too. He is probably very happy that he is only 13 seconds behind the GC lead by now. Roglic on the other hand was very strong today.

 

[Luthor]

roglic even more of a favourite now according to the bookies, him winning the tour only pays out 1.6 surprisingly.

Because people thought JV might prefer Dumoulin at the end. Also having another super dom.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

@Libertine Seguros Bernal was pretty aggressive in last years Tour. This Tour he simply does not have the legs at the moment. He was probably having an awful day on Lusette and he looked bad in Peyresourde too. He is probably very happy that he is only 13 seconds behind the GC lead by now. Roglic on the other hand was very strong today.

That was why I raised the additional paragraph about Quintana. I don't think Quintana deserves the criticism he gets for being negative a lot of the time, as his style of picking two or three stages to use, one to test people and one or two to go from deep, is no different to that used by some riders who are beloved for their aggression, however when he doesn't have it, he just sits in. Bernal strikes me as similar.

What we also have to remember is that though he's the defending champion, Bernal has never been to a GT as leader and marked man before, and to do that for the first time as the defending champion of the Tour de France is a whole different set of pressures.

 

[Rollthedice]

Reports coming in that climbing times on Peyresourde were stratospherical.

 

[Leinster]

@Libertine Seguros Bernal was pretty aggressive in last years Tour. This Tour he simply does not have the legs at the moment. He was probably having an awful day on Lusette and he looked bad in Peyresourde too. He is probably very happy that he is only 13 seconds behind the GC lead by now. Roglic on the other hand was very strong today.

He was aggressive on one day. Up until then in the Tour he had been 2nd best to Pinot (and arguably others) in the mountains.

 

[ice&fire]

He was aggressive on one day. Up until then in the Tour he had been 2nd best to Pinot (and arguably others) in the mountains.

Galibier + Iseran makes two days

 

[DFA123]

Reports coming in that climbing times on Peyresourde were stratospherical.

Wouldn't be surprised. Last climb of the stage; first week of the race; a relatively easy stage in terms of total climbing; attacks from early on the climb; and then Pogacar going full gas for 5km+. A perfect storm for really fast times.

 

[roundabout]

He was aggressive on one day. Up until then in the Tour he had been 2nd best to Pinot (and arguably others) in the mountains.

2 days. And those were attacks from far out.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Reports coming in that climbing times on Peyresourde were stratospherical.

2020: 9,8 km@7,7%---24:35---average speed 23.92 km/h (Tadej Pogacar)

http://www.climbing-records.com/search?q=PEYRESOURDE

 

[roundabout]

Reports coming in that climbing times on Peyresourde were stratospherical.

I think I read on the grupetto forum that there was tailwind

Edit: although then it would have been not helpful on the Bales and the times were strong there as well

 

[DFA123]

He was aggressive on one day. Up until then in the Tour he had been 2nd best to Pinot (and arguably others) in the mountains.

Not sure the epitome of boring can be a rider who attacks and jumps clear 40km from the end of a key stage. When he probably didn't even have to do so to win the race. That one move alone makes him more interesting than at least half of the GC contenders.

 

[Eclipse]

Bernal is actually a good comparison for Rogla actually.

Rogla was a super interesting, combative climber in smaller races in Eastern and Central Europe and further afield riding for Adria Mobil, who a few people slept on because he was older than the usual prospect not realising how new he was to cycling, and who lit up mountain stages in small races and clearly deserved the step up. Since going to the top level he's joined a team that has become a strangling force of strong riders, and has ceased to be an attacking, combative rider and has relied on final km burst and his TT skills primarily as they've looked to coach his former mercurial style out of him to maximise results as a pro.

Bernal was a super interesting, combative climber in smaller races in Eastern and Central Europe and further afield riding for Androni, and there was something of an expected bidding war for him as he lit up mountain stages in small races and clearly deserved the step up. Since going to the top level he's joined a team that has become a strangling force of strong riders. He has still managed to win races by being a mercurial, creative climber, but when out of form he becomes conservative as they've looked to coach his former ambitions out of him to maximise his results as a pro.

Bernal is also perhaps a lot like Quintana, who keeps getting slated as a negative rider despite that in almost every race he's had the form he has picked one or two stages to go from afar and lit them up, and he's also rescued a couple of bad GTs with stage wins late on, such as the last two years in the Tour de France. Quintana is a far more interesting rider than people are willing to acknowledge a lot of the time, due to a couple of examples of real passivity on high-profile occasions that have either cost him, or where people were relying on him to upset the Sky train and he simply couldn't do it.

This is also why I hope Tadej Pogačar never signs for a superteam, because I don't want that exuberance to be coached out of him and replaced with the same paralysing fear of losing that the big team coaches seem to instil in their riders.

It's the age old struggle when money and responsibility enters the mix.

Rogla and Bernal went from mercurial talents with freedom to express that to riders who have the weight of their teams and nations on their shoulders in a very short space of time. It's the same conundrum that may well hit riders like Remco where your ability and natural way of riding may not actually be the most conducive to winning long term.

Quintana is a great rider who has shown many many times that he'll attack if his legs are there, but who had a massive amount of responsibility placed on his shoulders as the man who should break the Sky train and when he couldn't do it people almost turned him into a villain.

Sadly unless the next gen show that you can break the more conservative tactics of contemporary professional riding they will be around to stay

 

[BeagleOfToledo]

We're finally safe from Zakarin

TdF activates extraordinary safety rule: Zakarin banned from descending. Ever. Again.

Cycling fans around the world can finally breathe easy, after Tour de France organisers ASO – in consultation with the UCI – activate executive powers to force Russian rider Ilnur Zakar…

gruppettogazette.com

 

[Sciatic]

I said yesterday about Pog attacking and Roglic answering...

Yes you did and I cast my doubts—but I’m so glad you were right!! Exciting stuff.

 

[Leinster]

Reports coming in that climbing times on Peyresourde were stratospherical.

Porte set the KOM for the climb today, 17s faster than Bardet in 2017.

Garin (Pont) à route de Portet | Strava Ride Segment in Garin, France

www.strava.com

Edit; Now Pogacar has uploaded his data, he was 26s faster than Porte, on just this segment (last 4km or so of the climb).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's the age old struggle when money and responsibility enters the mix.

Rogla and Bernal went from mercurial talents with freedom to express that to riders who have the weight of their teams and nations on their shoulders in a very short space of time. It's the same conundrum that may well hit riders like Remco where your ability and natural way of riding may not actually be the most conducive to winning long term.

Quintana is a great rider who has shown many many times that he'll attack if his legs are there, but who had a massive amount of responsibility placed on his shoulders as the man who should break the Sky train and when he couldn't do it people almost turned him into a villain.

Sadly unless the next gen show that you can break the more conservative tactics of contemporary professional riding they will be around to stay

This is perhaps also why riders who retain that exuberance, but at the expense of never truly achieving to their talent level, maintain that level of romanticism. You know, Mayo over Zubeldia, Jiménez over Olano, Landa over Aru and so on.

 

[Salvarani]

Roglic been riding more calculated since the Giro last year. When he was red-hot for most of the race. I think he learned a lot from that experience and having the lead for so long. Losing it at the end.

He then won the Vuelta.

What Im saying is, he might be knowing what he is doing. Even if he didnt capitalise on Bernal struggling, for example. Maybe he was okay establishing him as the number one guy for real on the team and that he is good after the Dauphine crash. That would be an okay first week.

Both Jumbo-Visma and Ineos are not strong enough to control it. At least they dont have that last crucial guy to the lead the favorites group and reel in attacks. Tom could become that guy, but it is always hard to watch a leader like that step into that role. At least for me.

Roglic followed the first few attacks from Pog, but then opted to ride more defensively. Maybe it took more to follow those first attacks from Pog than we think? It is hard to tell, when he later followed Quintana with ease at the end of the climb. That was right at the end of the climb though, and Roglic is pretty explosive to be fair. Either way, I would say it is him being calculated for now. Not taking too much of a responsibility to close people down, on his own, with not having a teammate around. He maybe could afford losing those seconds to Pog, even though it is risky game inviting him back.

Pog looks strong and it that must be a confidence boost. I like this guy a lot. Probably why I picked him in the TdF game.

Please dont take anything I said as facts here, since it just my thoughts and what I got from the stage.

If someone is having a bad day they could lose a lot tomorrow, if they went deep today. It would be fun to see UAE send someone in the break and then try and put a high pace up the first climb tomorrow.

Uran looked good, he seems to be going atm. Quintana in great form.