Tour de France 2020 | Stage 9 (Pau - Laruns, 153 km)

[Volderke]

I don't get all the Roglic hate.

Indurain won the Tour 5 times riding that way.

Nope.
1995, 7th stage. Indurain goes from far out and takes a minute on a LBL parcours, pulling Bruyneel to stage victory. That's a huge 30 minute effort, a day before the ITT so he wasn't riding defensively to save his legs:

View: https://youtu.be/_ryt-mRh3jI?t=3780


1994, 1st mountain top finish. Pantani attacks and Indurain is isolated. He decides to pull for the next 25 minutes and all but Luc Leblanc are dropped. Indurain already had the race lead after obliterating everyone in the ITT, but he still went on to put the icing on the cake in the mountains. That's some panache.

View: https://youtu.be/F5Sbg4X6ruY?t=1414

1991. After Lemond lost contact with the lead group on the Tourmalet, he got back before they reached the Aspin. But meanwhile, Indurain, your most boring rider, attacked from the lead group in the descent. He smartly waited for Chiapucci and together they tackled Col d'Aspin. Chiappucci the stage and Indurain his first yellow jersey, with panache.

View: https://youtu.be/qfTApLhGOZU?t=722


And that's exactly what Roglic failed to do in the first week: crush his opponents while they were weak. If Roglic now has any bad luck (puncture, crash, off-day), he will regret not having tried a bit harder to drop Bernal or to follow Pogacar on the Peyresourde.

ps: I am not a Roglic hater. I just feel he could ride a bit better, tactically. He is doing OK but OK could translate in "not enough" when evaluating the race in Paris.
disclaimer: I agree 1992 and 1993 were borefests. But Indurain can't be held responsible for those parcours designs with long ITT and less mountains, while they knew exactly what Indurain's talents were.

 

[Lequack]

21 Big Photos from Stage 9 (more to come) — corvos/aso/reuters
http://www.steephill.tv/2020/tour-de-france/photos/stage-09/

 

[Koronin]

Movistar posted this picture after today's stage.

 

[topt]

Roglic and Carapaz also won their GTs over weak fields. Strong GT fields must be a myth.

when bernal acctually beats roglic head to head ONCE I will shut the F up, also nobody is claiming Roglic will become some sort of beast in the third week when he finds his form

 

[Red Rick]

Movistar posted this picture after today's stage.

Some special reason going on?

 

[Rollthedice]

Some special reason going on?

Team classification leaders?

 

[topt]

Nope.
1995, 7th stage. Indurain goes from far out and takes a minute on a LBL parcours, pulling Bruyneel to stage victory. That's a huge 30 minute effort, a day before the ITT so he wasn't riding defensively to save his legs:

View: https://youtu.be/_ryt-mRh3jI?t=3780


1994, 1st mountain top finish. Pantani attacks and Indurain is isolated. He decides to pull for the next 25 minutes and all but Luc Leblanc are dropped.

View: https://youtu.be/F5Sbg4X6ruY?t=1414


And that's exactly what Roglic failed to do in the first week: crush his opponents while they were weak. If Roglic now has any bad luck (puncture, crash, off-day), he will regret not having tried a bit harder to drop Bernal or to follow Pogacar on the Peyresourde.

ps: I am not a Roglic hater. I just feel he could ride a bit better, tactically. He is doing OK but OK could translate in "not enough" when evaluating the race in Paris.

what you posted is an exception to rule how he won all those TDFs

Also, you are assuming than he can crush them; I dont buy that, the differences betwen top riders are very small now

 

[Lequack]

Some special reason going on?

Bad Google Translation:
Two very tough days in the Pyrenees, but always proud of your effort. We will continue fighting in the two weeks that remain in this @letour_es
. We #RodamosJuntos! # TDF2020

 

[Koronin]

Team classification leaders?

They did get the lead in that classification.

Some special reason going on?

Other than to show a better atmosphere on this team and showing their two leaders get along well, likely just thought it was a nice picture. They did take the team classification lead.

 

[Bolder]

He was stilll pretty good in 2019 though, the way he hammered up the last part of La Planche des Belles Filles was a sight to behold.

I'm onboard the "Ineos made a mistake by not picking Thomas for the TdF" train. He might well have raced himself into shape and gone over the top of Marie Blanche today with Bernal, or maybe a few seconds back. He's been a workhorse and 2x podium TdF over 10 years. I think he'd have relatively happily played dom for Bernal. I've not been impressed by Kwiat and Castroviejo yet.

 

[topt]

Movistar needs a new leader, they should go for Pogacar but first they need to ditch Sram

 

[Red Rick]

Don't know what Pogacar's contract situation is like, but his value is probably skyrocketing out of Movi's price range, and I'd also not touch Movi if I were Pog.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Nope.
1995, 7th stage. Indurain goes from far out and takes a minute on a LBL parcours, pulling Bruyneel to stage victory. That's a huge 30 minute effort, a day before the ITT so he wasn't riding defensively to save his legs:


1994, 1st mountain top finish. Pantani attacks and Indurain is isolated. He decides to pull for the next 25 minutes and all but Luc Leblanc are dropped. Indurain already had the race lead after obliterating everyone in the ITT, but he still went on to put the icing on the cake in the mountains. That's some panache.


And that's exactly what Roglic failed to do in the first week: crush his opponents while they were weak. If Roglic now has any bad luck (puncture, crash, off-day), he will regret not having tried a bit harder to drop Bernal or to follow Pogacar on the Peyresourde.

ps: I am not a Roglic hater. I just feel he could ride a bit better, tactically. He is doing OK but OK could translate in "not enough" when evaluating the race in Paris.

You are talking like the Tour is over...... I'll reserve my judgement till week 3, where the hard truths will emerge, as they always do in the Tour

As for riding "tactically better", everyone seem to forget, that Roglic also came into the Tour injured, after his crash in the Dauphine. We have no idea if he is in peak condition or not.... but prior to the Tour, it sounded like it was touch and go if he would make the start of the race.

I don't know what it is with Roglic, but for some reason people seem to hate him, for doing exactly the same things most the other GC riders do, not just this year.... but every year

 

[Volderke]

what you posted is an exception to rule how he won all those TDFs

Also, you are assuming than he can crush them; I dont buy that, the differences betwen top riders are very small now

I edited my post while you were commenting, but just as I see it: Indurain showed panache in 1991, 1994 and 1995 (3 out of 5). 1992 and 1992 were perfectly designed for him (ITT all over, many flat stages,...) so he didn't need to show panache, or couldn't even, if he wanted to.

 

[RedheadDane]

Don't know what Pogacar's contract situation is like, but his value is probably skyrocketing out of Movi's price range, and I'd also not touch Movi if I were Pog.

Contraced with UAE until - and included - 2024.

 

[Breezy1985]

Roglic was the second best climber in an average vuelta and Bernal was the best climber (who finished) in a weak tour but is more likely to improve for a year of racing and seems to be improving his shape while Roglic's shape either remains the same or gets worse

What a load of nonsense the second half of this statement is

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Don't know what Pogacar's contract situation is like, but his value is probably skyrocketing out of Movi's price range, and I'd also not touch Movi if I were Pog.

Question is what teams and budgets will be there.

We are getting into flu season and the 2nd peak of the pandemic, which has already caused havoc to the finances of many team owners, sponsors, and in turn teams.

It's hard to justify top level advertising in times of crisis

 

[BlueRoads]

I'm onboard the "Ineos made a mistake by not picking Thomas for the TdF" train. He might well have raced himself into shape and gone over the top of Marie Blanche today with Bernal, or maybe a few seconds back. He's been a workhorse and 2x podium TdF over 10 years. I think he'd have relatively happily played dom for Bernal. I've not been impressed by Kwiat and Castroviejo yet.

Well, you never know and we will see what his form is at Tirreno, but honestly, he had problems to just hang on - while having every reason to show his best, because I guess he wanted to make the Tour roster. I don't know the circumstances why he was one of the last to make it on the last, difficult stage, but his form seemed disastrous. Whatever went wrong with his preparation, just because he is in general probably still able to do much, much better, two weeks before the Tour he showed absolutely nothing. Kwiat and Castroviejo may not have been amazing so far, but do you really think Thomas would have done better?

 

[Broccolidwarf]

What a load of nonsense the second half of this statement is

I think his age is what Brumdog66 is referring to.

Bernal is 23, Roglic is 30 (31 in October).

If we subscribe to the old cycling truth, that your best years are 26 to 32, it is a fair statement that Bernal has not yet hit his peak, while Roglic is nearing the end of his peak years.

In Roglics defence, I'd say his longevity may be more than his age, because he got a late start in the sport, much as is the case with Fuglsang, so Roglic may be great for 5-6 years more.

If that happens, we're in for a hell of a Tour battle the next few years, as we add Pogacar, Evenepoel and a healthy Sivakov to the list of real contenders

 

[Lequack]

 

[Red Rick]

I'm not a fan of just ascribing peak ages and just assuming x rider will get y better and a rider will start declinging at b age.

 

[Rollthedice]

Pozzovivo retires, hopes to be at the Giro.

 

[Koronin]

Movistar needs a new leader, they should go for Pogacar but first they need to ditch Sram

I think this needs to be first and regardless of anything else.

Movistar is bringing in Cortina next year with a multi year contract. He's going there to be their classics leader.

This is Mas' first real chance to lead a team at a GT and he's learning how to do that from Valverde. Also remember they restarted the season totally out of race shape (plus with SRAM parts). Many of their riders didn't actually believe they'd be racing again until they were actually on the start line of races. So there's that as well. Not sure about all the riders, but Valverde, Mas, and Verona have had steady improvements to their form.

As for budget, Movistar is still at around 17 million per year and that appears to be in the lower half of the budgets for teams. There are now more teams right around 20 million for budgets, so there's that as well.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I edited my post while you were commenting, but just as I see it: Indurain showed panache in 1991, 1994 and 1995 (3 out of 5). 1992 and 1992 were perfectly designed for him (ITT all over, many flat stages,...) so he didn't need to show panache, or couldn't even, if he wanted to.

Come on dude...... I mean, I have the greatest respect of Indurain, but there is no doubt, of the major GC riders in history, he is by far the most boring one.

I can't even remember him standing up on the bicycle, like ever

 

[Koronin]

Question is what teams and budgets will be there.

We are getting into flu season and the 2nd peak of the pandemic, which has already caused havoc to the finances of many team owners, sponsors, and in turn teams.

It's hard to justify top level advertising in times of crises

Movistar's budget is around 17 million, which is where it's been for around the last maybe 5-8 years. They went from just over the average for team budgets to in the lower 3rd of team budgets during that time. Most teams are around 20 million now. HOWEVER, Movistar appears to be one of the few stable teams. In this sense having a sponsor that is a multi media company is an advantage. Also Movistar got a lot more out of the documentary they did on the team last year than anything they had expected.