Tour de France Tour de France 2021 - Enthusiastic laymen's thread

[spalco]

Are we talking about palmares or potential? Just palmares-wise, unless you rate the Tour above all others, clearly only Froome and Nibali have a better record than Roglic. I mean, Dumoulin, seriously?

edit: ok, I misunderstood. But I would still think peak Roglic has a good chance against peak-everyone else in that list except Froome. He wasn't beaten by Pogacar by much last year after all, and Pogacar is probably #2 in that list.

 

[johnymax]

Are we talking about palmares or potential? Just palmares-wise, unless you rate the Tour above all others, clearly only Froome and Nibali have a better record than Roglic. I mean, Dumoulin, seriously?

If we are going by palmares only, Dumoulin has better results than Carapaz.

 

[bNator]

At their best of the current active riders I rank Froome, Pogacar, Dumoulin, Nibali and Carapaz higher than Roglic over 3 weeks.

You can do that, but you did not respond to my challenge with that. Which was to name three riders that are better than Roglič since Roglič started going for GC which will have to be TDF 2018. Since then:

• Nibali: 1x 2nd (Giro)
• Froome: 1x 3rd (Tour)
• Dumo: 1x 2nd (Tour)

Edit: Carapaz is a stretch as well. He is lacking in palmares and Roglic beat him 2/3 on GTs they both attended.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Edit: Carapaz is a stretch as well. He is lacking in palmares and Roglic beat him 2/3 on GTs they both attended.

Carapaz was not ready for GC at the Tour last year as he was preparing the Giro so really it is 1-1 and if Carapaz had half the team Roglic had the result would have been different.

 

[johnymax]

Carapaz was not ready for GC at the Tour last year as he was preparing the Giro so really it is 1-1 and if Carapaz had half the team Roglic had the result would have been different.

Hmm...you are not talking about Giro 2019 by any means, are you?

 

[Gargamel35]

Carapaz was not ready for GC at the Tour last year as he was preparing the Giro so really it is 1-1 and if Carapaz had half the team Roglic had the result would have been different.

There are a lot of if's out there. If Roglič wouldn't have that much bad luck, if, if, if...

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Pinot's goat

But still Roglič has recently beaten Carapaz in a GT race. And that doesn't exactly prove Roglič is a worse GT rider. Does it.

P.S. Just finished listening to THEMOVE 2021 Tour de France preview and was rather surprised all choose Roglič as their top pick.

 

[Pinot's goat]

There are a lot of if's out there. If Roglič wouldn't have that much bad luck, if, if, if...

I am judging who is the best GT rider not who deserved to win that race, if a rider was helped a lot by having a much stronger team you must take that out of the equation when judging who is the better rider.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

BEX wins the prize for best line-up presentation!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1406869719278403585

"The Joker" is the perfect nickname for Chris Juul.

I still, from time to time, dig out that old video from the Tingkoff days, of him making fun of Lars Michaelsen while he did an interview:

View: https://youtu.be/UTgByh_BaWw


The dude is hilarious

 

[CyclistAbi]

I am judging who is the best GT rider not who deserved to win that race, if a rider was helped a lot by having a much stronger team you must take that out of the equation when judging who is the better rider.

But why did you then put Froome on the list.

 

[bNator]

Carapaz was not ready for GC at the Tour last year as he was preparing the Giro so really it is 1-1 and if Carapaz had half the team Roglic had the result would have been different.

Well if "not-peaking" can be an excuse for Carapaz's Tour then it can be an excuse for Roglič's Vuelta. If (nice word, eh?) Roglic had come to Vuelta peaking, then the result would not not have been different even if Carapaz had half the team Roglic had. More interesting question is, would Carapaz stil have won Giro 2019 had Primoz have a proper team?

See - we can play this "IF" game whole afternoon. In the end, we have track records which are objective and in this case conclusive enough to rely on them when assesing the ranking of the riders in question.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Well if "not-peaking" can be an excuse for Carapaz's Tour then it can be an excuse for Roglič's Vuelta.

Carapaz went into the TDF as a domestique, Roglic went into La Vuelta as a leader, they are not the same situations.

 

[Mayomaniac]

"The Joker" is the perfect nickname for Chris Juul.

I still, from time to time, dig out that old video from the Tingkoff days, of him making fun of Lars Michaelsen while he did an interview:

View: https://youtu.be/UTgByh_BaWw


The dude is hilarious

So at least that one is an actual nickname, lots of the stuff sounds like a PR guy just went for some random aliteration (chargin Chavito, when his actual nicknames, besides Chavito of course are el Colibri or el Chivo).

 

[bNator]

Carapaz went into the TDF as a domestique, Roglic went into La Vuelta as a leader, they are not the same situations.

Ok but you will agree we are comparing peak Carapz with not-peak Roglic, right? So lack of team should kind of even out in the end...

 

[Broccolidwarf]

As for all the Pogacar vs Roglic talk, I think the 58K ITT there is this year, will make a difference.

Yes, Pogacar beat Roglic last year, but that was on the last day, on a mountain TT.

This year both TTs are flat.

I think Pogacar needs to take more time in the mountains this year, something he only managed once last year, early in the race, when nobody counted him a main contender.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

So at least that one is an actual nickname, lots of the stuff sounds like a PR guy just went for some random aliteration (chargin Chavito, when his actual nicknames, besides Chavito of course are el Colibri or el Chivo).

Oh, I don't think it's his nickname for real - clearly the SoMe team made it up - I'm just saying it's fitting

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for all the Pogacar vs Roglic talk ...

Yeah, what's up with that. Like seriously. All the cycling world is just so caught up with that.

 

[Escarabajo]

There are a lot of if's out there. If Roglič wouldn't have that much bad luck, if, if, if...

I did not see one single if in that sentence. And his point is really simple. As simple as it gets.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Yeah, what's up with that. Like seriously. All the cycling world is just so caught up with that.

What do you mean?

I am giving you my take on it - not saying the talk should stop?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Quintana, Bouhanni, Barguil lead Arkéa-Samsic at Tour de France

French team more varied and less Quintana-oriented than last year

www.cyclingnews.com

Nairoman intensifies

 

[Gargamel35]

I did not see one single if in that sentence. And his point is really simple. As simple as it gets.

Simply wrong yes as others pointed out already.

 

[Ricco']

Alpecin sends so many possibilities for a sprint train.

MVDP power wattage on the last 1.5k before Rickaert delivers Merlier and/or Philipsen would be strong. Very strong.

Full line-up:
MVDP, Merlier, Philipsen, Dillier, Rickaert, Vakoc, Sbaragli, Meurisse

 

[bNator]

I did not see one single if in that sentence. And his point is really simple. As simple as it gets.

Look closer:

Carapaz was not ready for GC at the Tour last year as he was preparing the Giro so really it is 1-1 and if Carapaz had half the team Roglic had the result would have been different.

 

[CyclistAbi]

But if we could all just agree.

P.S. What would be the point in that.

 

[Escarabajo]

Look closer:

LOL. How could I miss that . At least there weren't many "ifs" like the author suggested. It is settled then. Roglic does not have to worry about Carapaz.