Tour de France Tour de France 2021, Stage 6: Tours – Châteauroux, 160.6 km

[canarydan23]

What "Rasmussen incident"?
Which Rasmussen?
I'm assuming Michael...

Yeah, back in the 2015 Tour Rasmussen tweeted something like "Track cyclist Geraint Thomas leaving behind Nairo Quintana on a climb" with the implication being that it looked dodgy. Peter Kennaugh then confronted him about it at the start of a stage and gave him some verbal.

To me, that's fair. Rasmussen is entitled to voice his opinion and Kennaugh is entitled to give him some back if he thinks he's been unfair.

But the Pooley incident, which had escaped my attention, was far more unsavoury. I only learned about it after @Libertine Seguros mentioned it earlier on. Pooley bemoaned that a similar Sky-British Cycling program wasn't created for women and the lack of funds put into the Giro Rosa and Kennaugh responded by saying, "Why would they put money into something no one in the UK has heard of, stop being self centred and get over it". He apologised pretty immediately after, but you can imagine that was because someone called him and told him he had to rather than because he felt he had done wrong.

 

[tobydawq]

They're not there, are they? Besides which, I dare say if Caleb hopped on a bike right this minute, he'd struggle in a 2-up sprint against Cav.

And what @Breezy1985 said in the post right above mine.

Well, but that is exactly my point... The fact that they are injured doesn't mean they suddenly don't exist.

 

[Leinster]

Well, but that is exactly my point... The fact that they are injured doesn't mean they suddenly don't exist.

Right, but the fact that they aren't currently in the race means there's little point debating "what if they were?"

 

[Netserk]

Right, but the fact that they aren't currently in the race means there's little point debating "what if they were?"

So Colbrelli was the best sprinter in the world in the first week of June?

 

[canarydan23]

Right, but the fact that they aren't currently in the race means there's little point debating "what if they were?"

I do agree, but isn't a forum like this exactly the place to debate all the what ifs?

I adore Cav, always have, but at the start of this Tour I said I'd be happy if he just won a single stage. It's largely only down to Ewan's crash, Demare's apparent lack of form (or the effects of his crash) and Alpecin's odd split sprinter strategy that Merckx's record is in any sort of peril.

However, given Cavendish's form, the fact that it has been on an upward trajectory for the past few weeks and his unrivalled experience and getting it done on the biggest stage, I think he'd have been good for at least one stage win even without those other factors. Let's be honest, Caleb Ewan was the fastest sprinter on the start list and would have been favourite for all 7/8 of the sprint stages, but there is no way he was going to all of them, he'd have been happy taking half, which would have left 3 or 4 others to go around for Cav, Demare, Merlier, Philipsen, Bouhanni, van Aert or Sagan. Against those, I'd have fancied the missile to win one easily, maybe 2 or more.

Obviously without Bennett's injury he'd have won none as he wouldn't be here, but I think he could have beaten him a few times as well. He nearly did at Scheldeprijs despite Bennett being the main man in their team.

You're right, there is little point in debating it, but it can still be fun!

 

[canarydan23]

So Colbrelli was the best sprinter in the world in the first week of June?

One win at the Dauphine =/= Two wins at the Tour de France

 

[Mayomaniac]

In the Cav thread you are deluded if you think the field isn't always equally good. Farrar, Hushovd, Ciolek, old versions of Zabel, Petacchi, McEwen, Freire -- they were as good as the field three years earlier. 2008-2010=2005-2007.

But but Chavendish is the best thing since sliced bread!

 

[canarydan23]

But but Chavendish is the best thing since sliced bread!

How many stages did sliced bread win? And what was the opposition? I mean if they only won against a naan bread and a sourdough then do they really count?

 

[Netserk]

One win at the Dauphine =/= Two wins at the Tour de France

So who was the best sprinter in the world in the first week of June?

 

[Leinster]

So Colbrelli was the best sprinter in the world in the first week of June?

There were other races of equal, or higher, priority going at or around the same time as the Dauphine, (Giro, Tour de Suisse, even Romandie where he won a stage and the points jersey) so while you could make an argument for him at the time, it wasn't clear cut.

There's nothing else going on right now. If you're not at the Tour, it's because someone else can (currently) ride their bike faster than you.

 

[Leinster]

How many stages did sliced bread win? And what was the opposition? I mean if they only won against a naan bread and a sourdough then do they really count?

Baguettes are the GOAT bread.

 

[tobydawq]

There were other races of equal, or higher, priority going at or around the same time as the Dauphine, (Giro, Tour de Suisse, even Romandie where he won a stage and the points jersey) so while you could make an argument for him at the time, it wasn't clear cut.

There's nothing else going on right now. If you're not at the Tour, it's because someone else can (currently) ride their bike faster than you.

So Miles Scotson is currently a better climber than Egan Bernal?

 

[canarydan23]

So who was the best sprinter in the world in the first week of June?

Caleb Ewan would have a shout given that he'd won a couple of GT stages and was runner-up at Milan-San Remo. Or you could make a case for Tim Merlier with his Le Samyn and Giro victories.

 

[Leinster]

So Miles Scotson is currently a better climber than Egan Bernal?

I didn't say that, but Dave Brailsford seems to think so.

 

[RedheadDane]

Guarnieri is okay after his crash.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1410641816802693124

 

[Swingtop]

Seriously. The Cav fanboys are out in force. Who can defend a deliberate 1.5 meter "swerve" in the last 100 m?
100% relegation. But yeah, it's Cav. I hope Alpecin will sandwich him out tomorrow. But then the jury will intervene of course.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Baguettes are the GOAT bread.

But only French Baguettes (for real, they are really good).

 

[tobydawq]

Seriously. The Cav fanboys are out in force. Who can defend a deliberate 1.5 meter "swerve" in the last 100 m?
100% relegation. But yeah, it's Cav. I hope Alpecin will sandwich him out tomorrow. But then the jury will intervene of course.

At first I thought the complaints were a bit silly but now I also find the movement more than questionable. I guess the thing working in his favour is that he actually was faster and blocked Merlier after having passed him (which makes it different to most of these cases) but he did both change his line and endanger Merlier, so he should probably have been relegated.

 

[Swingtop]

Yes, it looks like Cav is the fastest, but Philipsen is running a big gear and starts to speed up, right when he needs to brake for a second because of Cav's deviation. I still think Cav would probably have won, but I can't be sure now. Enough to file a complaint, at least.

 

[Netserk]

At first I thought the complaints were a bit silly but now I also find the movement more than questionable. I guess the thing working in his favour is that he actually was faster and blocked Merlier after having passed him (which makes it different to most of these cases) but he did both change his line and endanger Merlier, so he should probably have been relegated.

I think it was fine, but then I do so in almost all of the questionable cases. To me, it just showed Cavendish to be a more experienced sprinter. I've only rewatched the sprint once, but I'd rather blame the AF duo (especially Merlier) for not hindering Cavendish more.

 

[Leinster]

Seriously. The Cav fanboys are out in force. Who can defend a deliberate 1.5 meter "swerve" in the last 100 m?
100% relegation. But yeah, it's Cav. I hope Alpecin will sandwich him out tomorrow. But then the jury will intervene of course.

At first I thought "clear deviation by Cav." Looking back at the front-on view, though, Philipsen does also move to his right. Not as much as Cav moves to the left, but I can accept a bit more the "2 sprinters coming together" argument.

 

[tobydawq]

At first I thought "clear deviation by Cav." Looking back at the front-on view, though, Philipsen does also move to his right. Not as much as Cav moves to the left, but I can accept a bit more the "2 sprinters coming together" argument.

Yes, but I think it's the movement against Merlier that is punishable. Because he needs to brake and doesn't swerve towards Cavendish in the least. I just don't get why Cavendish needs to cut in front of him at all.

 

[Leinster]

Yes, but I think it's the movement against Merlier that is punishable. Because he needs to brake and doesn't swerve towards Cavendish in the least. I just don't get why Cavendish needs to cut in front of him at all.

Merlier is (in this case) a leadout man who you'd expect to be drifting backwards.

If Morkov (or any QS leadout man of the last 5 years) was in Merlier's position, he would have moved to the right and slowed down to block Cav, and give his own sprinter a clearer run.

 

[Netserk]

Yes, but I think it's the movement against Merlier that is punishable. Because he needs to brake and doesn't swerve towards Cavendish in the least. I just don't get why Cavendish needs to cut in front of him at all.

It's instinct. It makes it harder for any rider behind you to stay on your wheel, and I think it's a bit faster too.

 

[Swingtop]

It's instinct. It makes it harder for any rider behind you to stay on your wheel, and I think it's a bit faster too.

It's Cav re-introducing toxic sprint styles from way back when he was still sprinting. I thought the Jakobsen-Groenewegen affair woke everybody up on how not to sprint, but the Cav fanboys just throw all that sanity out of the window, and that includes TV commentators.

If this kind of sprinting is allowed (again), we're in for some nice crashes in the near future. God, I start to hate that Cav is back already.