Tour de France Tour de France 2021, Stage 8: Oyonnax – Le Grand-Bornand, 150.8 km

[houtdffan]

Was Beloki (2'52'' after Armstrong) the best of the rest not in the break of the day?

We didn't see gaps nearly as large as Hautacam today (at least in as short of a time as that day).

Only thing that has ever been comparable to Hautacam since was ADH 2001 or perhaps Pla D'Adet 2001.

Pogacar was actually slower today than was Conta and the Schlecks in 2009, when those 3 soft-pedaled after Kloden bonked

 

[Rackham]

I said Roglic would put 5 minutes into Carapaz if healthy.

I guess I'm gonna have to do with Pogacar winning by 15.

Another question for the post-Tour fallout would be whether Roglic actually dodged a bullet when he was catapulted into a ditch by Colbrelli (hoping he fully recovers of course).

Because for argument sake, we've seen in sport a million times when two rivals go toe-to-toe & there's a total annihilation of one of them, we see their aura, reputation & self-belief can take a serious hit (whether it's an individual sport or collective team sport).

I'm not saying Pogacar would have destroyed Roglic, but if a healthy, motivated & fully backed Roglic out to avenge the Planche des Belles Filles had lost the same amount of time as Carapaz today, wow, it would have hurt.

It's just another way of looking at it.

 

[OldCranky]

This ain't rock and roll, this is genocide...

 

[Jungle Cycle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1411381066972254208

View: https://twitter.com/sam_bewley/status/1411381066972254208

 

[Rollthedice]

Another question for the post-Tour fallout would be whether Roglic actually dodged a bullet when he was catapulted into a ditch by Colbrelli (hoping he fully recovers of course).

Because for argument sake, we've seen in sport a million times when two rivals go toe-to-toe & there's a total annihilation of one of them, we see their aura, reputation & self-belief can take a serious hit (whether it's an individual sport or collective team sport).

I'm not saying Pogacar would have destroyed Roglic, but if a healthy, motivated & fully backed Roglic out to avenge the Planche des Belles Filles had lost the same amount of time as Carapaz today, wow, it would have hurt.

It's just another way of looking at it.

That's why he was smiling all the way today.

 

[houtdffan]

HOw much will Pogacar win by on Ventoux?

This could become a Merckx-like win very quickly

 

[Krzysztof_O]

HOw much will Pogacar win by on Ventoux?

This could become a Merckx-like win very quickly

Superman will peak out of nowhere and beat Pogi there. He's already saving his energy for this mountain.

 

[YavorD]

To all the talk about what would happen if Roglic was healthy... We'll neev know, but..
I think in a straight effort (tt like) Roglic wouldn't be able to keep with Pogacar. However, road stager are often not like that. If Rog kept Pog's wheel after second acceleration (and I think he would've) either both stop and look at each other, either they work together.


On another note: Are people still wonder why Movistar chased yesterday? At the end Carapaz attacked hard and chased Pogacar hard, Mas was always on wheels and lost nothing. At the end of the Tour....who knows..?

 

[Rollthedice]

IMHO if Roglic doesn't crash earlier in the race, he would've beaten Pogacar by 2 minutes minimum. And if Contador didn't retire, he would have finished another 2 minutes ahead of Roglic.

And if Armstrong was not banned he could have come back and put another 2 minutes in Contador.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Pogacar was actually slower today than was Conta and the Schlecks in 2009, when those 3 soft-pedaled after Kloden bonked

From the timings posted by Red Rick earlier it looked like he was over a minute faster than them (in total) over the last two climbs

 

[Escarabajo]

Do you know that for sure? I thought the circumstances of the crash were still unclear.

I really don't care who was at fault TBH. My point is different to who caused the crash!!

 

[Bolder]

Is the grupetto normally that big? Looked close to 100 riders and some of the names there are staggering!

Alaphilippe - I’m done with that guy. Never liked him anyway but just when I think he might make a podium he lays a turd. Overrated!

Anyone who got dropped even a little bit today just soft pedaled to the finish, it seems. Going to be epic battles to get in breaks...

 

[IndianCyclist]

Today's stage timings look like an entire GT was raced in the time frame. Basically Pogacar spanked the peloton

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

I really don't care who was at fault TBH. My point is different to who caused the crash!!

I get your point, but if you are gonna write that in such loaded terms then you should be able to back up the claim, no? Otherwise you make a rider who may not be at fault look very bad. Peace

 

[Rollthedice]

Bit disappointed by Richie Door.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

And if Armstrong was not banned he could have come back and put another 2 minutes in Contador.

Not a long time ago they tested Indurain - he still has a lot of power. If he unretired he would absolutely crush Pogacar on stage 5 TT and ride conservatively today (on Pogi's wheel).

 

[fbjim]

It seems quaint that we were arguing about tactics at some point. Who needs tactics when you can stomp the field and wrap it up by the first rest day?

 

[Ramira]

Interesting that nobody has mentioned Ullrich in 1997 yet. Because honestly that's what this reminds me of. That year he finished 2nd in the opening prologue, taking 42 seconds on the eventual runner up Virenque. Then in stage 9 (after 8 straight sprint stages, as the prologue didn't count as a stage back then) and finishing with Pantani and Virenque in the first hilly stage he took 1:08 on both of them in stage 10.

Which doesn't sound as impressive, but he took 2:01 on Casagrande in 4th and 3:23 on last year's winner Riis in 5th. He also followed that up by taking 3:04 on everyone in the stage 12 hilly time trial. At that point he was 5:42 ahead of Virenque in 2nd and 8:00 ahead of Olano in 3rd, with most of that time coming in 2 stages. He ended winning by 9:09 over Virenque and 14:03 ahead of Pantani in 3rd. And if I remember correctly, he never really tried to do all that much after stage 12.

The big difference is that there were some other riders well ahead of the pack (well that and a lot of clinic stuff back then that has been well documented by now). Meanwhile Carapaz finished in a group that had 3 riders in it that never finished top 15 in a grand tour (Vingegaard, Lutsenko and O'Connor), another 2 that never made a podium (Gaudu and Bilbao), 2 more with only a single podium (Mas and Kelderman) and Urán, who finished 2nd in three Grand Tours but is also 34 and finished 7th and 8th the last two years.

While Pogačar might well have dropped a fully healthy Roglič, or Bernal if he had been in this Tour, I doubt he takes the 3:25 he took on the group of Carapaz today. Not just because of the quality but also because I can't help but feel that some riders in that group could have done better but resigned themselves to racing for the podium.

I also wonder what role the weather played, as that does tend to exaggerated the differences and some riders don't deal with that as well. Which also brings me back to Bernal not being here, because he showed in the Giro that he can deal with bad weather pretty damn well.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Interesting that nobody has mentioned Ullrich in 1997 yet. Because honestly that's what this reminds me of. That year he finished 2nd in the opening prologue, taking 42 seconds on the eventual runner up Virenque. Then in stage 9 (after 8 straight sprint stages, as the prologue didn't count as a stage back then) and finishing with Pantani and Virenque in the first hilly stage he took 1:08 on both of them in stage 10.

He was mentioned a few times here as the last prodigy comparable to Pogacar at GTs (he was maybe even more impressive).

 

[Ramira]

He was mentioned a few times here as the last prodigy comparable to Pogacar at GTs (he was even more impressive in 1997).

True, he was mentioned in general, but I didn't see his 1997 tour specifically mentioned.

Interestingly, I think the only way Pogačar loses this Tour outside of a crash is if he does a 1998 Ullrich and forgets to eat. He was 4:41 ahead of Pantani after stage 10, that dropped to 3:01 by the start of stage 15 in which he forgot to eat leading a hunger knock which caused him to lose 8:57 to Pantani.

Of course there is pretty much no chance of that happening these days. Though I think João Almeida losing over 4 minutes to Bernal in stage 4 of the Giro was rumoured to be caused by him forgetting to eat.

 

[titan31]

Bit disappointed by Richie Door.

Good old auto Google translate from French to English. Some of my other favourites are Victor From The Part, Anthony Father, Cees Bowl and Xandro Kill.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

True, he was mentioned in general, but I didn't see his 1997 tour specifically mentioned.

Interestingly, I think the only way Pogačar loses this Tour outside of a crash is if he does a 1998 Ullrich and forgets to eat. He was 4:41 ahead of Pantani after stage 10, that dropped to 3:01 by the start of stage 15 in which he forgot to eat leading a hunger knock which caused him to lose 8:57 to Pantani.

Of course there is pretty much no chance of that happening these days. Though I think João Almeida losing over 4 minutes to Bernal in stage 4 of the Giro was rumoured to be caused by him forgetting to eat.

Except that Pantani was the best climber ever capable of single-handedly destroying the race. Who would do Pantani this year? Pogacar would have to crack terribly.

 

[Netserk]

Today on Romme-Colombière (including descent, with a little uncertainty over when they started the climb):

Pogačar: 56'40''
Carapaz: 1h00'01 (+3'21'' = +5.91 %)

I'd guess that on the ascents alone, the relative difference is greater than on Hautacam.

Ascents alone:

Romme (Source):
Pogačar: 26'29''
Carapaz: 27'36'' (+1'07'' = +4.22 %)
(Contador's group in 2009): 26'48'' (+0'19'' = +1.20 %)

Colombière (Source):
Pogačar: 21'55''
Carapaz: ???
(Contador's group in 2009): 22'48'' (+0'53'' = + 4.03 %)

Both ascents:
Pogačar: 48'24''
Carapaz:
(Contador's group in 2009): 49'36'' (+1'12'' = +2.48 %)

Will be updated when ammattipyoraily has Carapaz's time on Colombière.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

i think the times say nothing because the conditions were terrible this year.

 

[Netserk]

i think the times say nothing because the conditions were terrible this year.

2009 was just a curiosity (which is why it's in parentheses), many things are different. When Carapaz's time on Colombière is added, it's possible to do a better comparison with other dominant displays, like Armstrong on Hautacam in 2000.