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Tour de France Tour de France 2021, Stage 8: Oyonnax – Le Grand-Bornand, 150.8 km

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Take it away, Tom

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I am thinking that TD might have known more in hindsight. He might have just ralized that he can't compete with the new state of the peloton, let alone Pogacar.
 
I do think those times make it look like it's just that the others were very weak rather than Pogacar being completely out of the world, and he was just excellent. Climbed Colombiere slower than Dan Martin in 2018 based on that and only marginally faster than Contador and Schlecks back in 09.
 
I do think those times make it look like it's just that the others were very weak rather than Pogacar being completely out of the world, and he was just excellent. Climbed Colombiere slower than Dan Martin in 2018 based on that and only marginally faster than Contador and Schlecks back in 09.
They were far slower on Romme in 2018, and the stage ridden far easier (and in easier conditions). And a bit weird that you call 4 % marginally, but just say slower than Dan Martin when the difference was 2 seconds (2/53 of the 'marginal' difference).
 
They were far slower on Romme in 2018, and the stage ridden far easier (and in easier conditions). And a bit weird that you call 4 % marginally, but just say slower than Dan Martin when the difference was 2 seconds (2/53 of the 'marginal' difference).

Both are marginal tbf. I do think in comparison to 2009 when times have seemed to be dropping in recent years, it's not hugely crazy. It's still great obviously but the others being 3 minutes slower means they were basically in the Nibali, Armstrong, Kloden, Wiggins range from 09 which isn't that impressive tbh. 09 of course was also way later in the race so riders would be more tired too.
 
Then you more or less never see anyone win by more than a marginal difference. It's equivalent to roughly 1'30'' on Alpe d'Huez, a massive difference.

Sure, but in this case, it's 19 seconds, which I'd say is marginal (as is Martin's difference).

Main point I'm making anyway is whilst it was a great performance, comparing his times to other years, it doesn't look like it was an out of the world performance (which you know what that implies in cycling). Others were either weak or more likely since they all finished together, gave up and just looked at each other.
 
Sure, but in this case, it's 19 seconds, which I'd say is marginal (as is Martin's difference).

Main point I'm making anyway is whilst it was a great performance, comparing his times to other years, it doesn't look like it was an out of the world performance (which you know what that implies in cycling). Others were either weak or more likely since they all finished together, gave up and just looked at each other.
You wrote about Colombière (even if you meant Romme for the Contador comparison) where the difference was 53'' which is far from marginal. And when you compare the total time of the two ascents (that is the relevant measure), this one is clearly far better than the two previous times the double has been climbed. And that's before taking the conditions into account, which make this year more impressive.
 
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You wrote about Colombière (even if you meant Romme for the Contador comparison) where the difference was 53'' which is far from marginal. And when you compare the total time of the two ascents (that is the relevant measure), this one is clearly far better than the two previous times the double has been climbed. And that's before taking the conditions into account, which make this year more impressive.

Ya, meant Romme in 09 and Colombiere in 18. Obviously combined, it's better than both but a minute better than 09 combined doesn't strike me as very crazy tbh, especially considering how much earlier in the race it is.
 
Ya, meant Romme in 09 and Colombiere in 18. Obviously combined, it's better than both but a minute better than 09 combined doesn't strike me as very crazy tbh, especially considering how much earlier in the race it is.


Well, but in 2009 was second stage after a rest day. Today was 8th stage in a race. That leads a question aren't riders supposed to be more tired after a bloke of 8 stages, especially last one rider really hard (and with a huge (?) temperature difference between each of them) in the beginning of the race or in stage 17, but AFTER a rest day?
Anyway, times doesn't suggest mighty impressive performance.
 
I didn't see any sitting up among the other GC contenders tbh, the battle for top5/podium is the real challenge this year with Pog way out ahead and there doesn't seem to have been any letup in it. Carapaz may have ended with some of the others again but had Castroviejo up the road to help him and gave it everything. Been a crazy couple of stages after the epic yesterday and there were some shattered riders out there, yet Pog could still take off on his own, crush everyone, and put in times which are great in any conditions. Looked seriously impressive in my opinion.
 
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I didn't see any sitting up among the other GC contenders tbh, the battle for top5/podium is the real challenge this year with Pog way out ahead and there doesn't seem to have been any letup in it. Carapaz may have ended with some of the others again but had Castroviejo up the road to help him and gave it everything. Been a crazy couple of stages after the epic yesterday and there were some shattered riders out there, yet Pog could still take off on his own, crush everyone, and put in times which are great in any conditions. Looked seriously impressive in my opinion.

They didn't go back much to that group really. I think at one point on Romme, Fraile was pacing them which isn't a great sign for them going full out tbh. Don't think anyone had a teammate on Comonbierw in that group so not sure who would have pulled there.
 
Ascents alone:

Romme (Source):
Pogačar: 26'29''
Carapaz: 27'36'' (+1'07'' = +4.22 %)
(Contador's group in 2009): 26'48'' (+0'19'' = +1.20 %)

Colombière (Source):
Pogačar: 21'55''
Carapaz: ???
(Contador's group in 2009): 22'48'' (+0'53'' = + 4.03 %)

Both ascents:
Pogačar: 48'24''
Carapaz:
(Contador's group in 2009): 49'36'' (+1'12'' = +2.48 %)

Will be updated when ammattipyoraily has Carapaz's time on Colombière.

Carapaz started Colombiere about the same 1'06''-1'07'' back as he was over the top of Romme.
 
If the descent was done equally fast by the two (and note that Carapaz was paced by Castro while Pogi was alone), the difference on the two ascents would be 3'21'' = 6.92 %. More than the 6.56 % of Armstrong to Moreau on Hautacam. Brutal.

Hautacam, 2000:
Armstrong: 36’20’’
Moreau: 38’43’’ (+2’23’’ = +6.56 %)

Romme-Colombière (ascents exclusively), 2021:
Pogačar: 48'24''
Carapaz: 51'45'' (+3'21'' = +6.92 %)
((Chase group*)): 52'12'' (+3'48'' = +7.85 %)

*Under assumption that the chase group also had an equally fast descent.
 
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If the descent was done equally fast by the two (and note that Carapaz was paced by Castro while Pogi was alone), the difference on the two ascents would be 3'21'' = 6.92 %. More than the 6.56 % of Armstrong to Moreau on Hautacam. Brutal.

Hautacam, 2000:
Armstrong: 36’20’’
Moreau: 38’43’’ (+2’23’’ = +6.56 %)

Romme-Colombière (ascents exclusively), 2021:
Pogačar: 48'24''
Carapaz: 51'45'' (+3'21'' = +6.92 %)
Chase group: 52'12'' (+3'48'' = +7.85 %)
What was the weather and overall stage for Hautacam that year? Judging by Armstrongs time it was ***?