Tour de France Tour de France 2022 route rumors thread.

[Eddy Evenepoel]

The GC being made by adding stage positions together and the one with the lowest number in Paris being the winner

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The GC being made by adding stage positions together and the one with the lowest number in Paris being the winner

I'm sure Almeida would like that to be applied to the 2020 Giro.

 

[railxmig]

The GC being made by adding stage positions together and the one with the lowest number in Paris being the winner

Pogacar would still win.

For the Danes out there. That large bridge on stage 2 towards Nyborg/Odense is on a E-W direction. The majority of winds in Denmark are westerlies. Is there a high chance of a crosswind on the bridge or a headwind? A higher chance of a potential crosswind may occur day later as the Sonderborg stage is mainly on a south direction.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The GC being made by adding stage positions together and the one with the lowest number in Paris being the winner

Luigi Ganna likes this

 

[el_angliru]

For the Danes out there. That large bridge on stage 2 towards Nyborg/Odense is on a E-W direction. The majority of winds in Denmark are westerlies. Is there a high chance of a crosswind on the bridge or a headwind?

I posted wind stats for Storebæltsbroen on page 1 in the thread. Source is Danish TV2.

 

[Nirvana]

I've waited a couple of days to clear my mind but i still see a lot of sh...err...mud floating around. I mean there are a couple of positive things like the cobbles, the less flat days (that doesn't necessarily mean less sprints but at least they need to fight a bit like we see often in the Giro or Vuelta) and the fact that at least this year they were able to put three real climbs in the same stage instead of doing only __/\/ or _/\_/\ designs with at maximum a little côte before.

But the problems are always there, they were good in masking the reduction of ITT mileage by making one a bit longer so nowaydays great minds like White immediately started to say "TT heavy route" but still we are barely above 50 kms in total, less than what a long flat ITT alone should be. The stages lenght is the usual crap, except one hilly stage, and mountain stage are again robbed from the Tour de l'Avenir, some gimmicks like the "Superplanche" are glorified and adding an hill here and there (think for example the hill before the uphill finish in Longwy) are described like incredible innovations. Not to mention the fact that in some things they are even regressing, a climb at the beginning of the stage is always good for extra action, with bad weather/particular circumstances could even lead to carnage like in Le Grand Bornard this year so what they do? Pan flat starts in every mountain stage except one in which there is the false flat up the Lautaret so basically is the same.

 

[solo80k]

7/10.

I think the route is well balanced. GC variation will occur after mini PR stage. I'm missing only a short TTT (15-20 km) during the first week.

 

[CyclistAbi]

In addition to some GC favorites potentially taking a hit GC teams could lose a couple of valuable support members on cobbles?

 

[Escarabajo]

Put it this way. Without the cobbles and the first week, might as well give the Tour to Pogi. That is if he doesn't go to the Giro.

 

[tobydawq]

Put it this way. Without the cobbles and the first week, might as well give the Tour to Pogi. That is if he doesn't go to the Giro.

But what does that have to do with the route?

 

[Escarabajo]

But what does that have to do with the route?

I was responding to CyclistAbi about the route, that the cobbles, even though is a high risk, gives opportunities to other riders to get some time on some key favorites. With all due respect, doesn't it have to do with the route?

 

[tobydawq]

I was responding to CyclistAbi about the route, that the cobbles, even though is a high risk, gives opportunities to other riders to get some time on some key favorites. With all due respect, doesn't it have to do with the route?

Okay, I guess I misinterpreted your post. I read it as a criticism that the rest of the route, apart from the cobbles, was designed specifically for Pogi (and I think it's hard to imagine how you could design against him).

 

[CyclistAbi]

Put it this way. Without the cobbles and the first week, might as well give the Tour to Pogi. That is if he doesn't go to the Giro.

For sure cobbles represent an opportunity for his main rivals. Hence i don't feel the racing will be reserved. That is on why i expect if not for the main favorites then at least their support could take a hit. Such results after having an effect on race dynamics.

 

[Escarabajo]

For sure cobbles represent an opportunity for his main rivals. Hence i don't feel the racing will be reserved. That is on why i expect if not for the main favorites then at least their support could take a hit. Such results after having an effect on race dynamics.

I think something is going to happen given the current circumstances. I think that is inevitably. This is different to the last time that Froome, Quintana and Co went through the cobbles unscathed. Nobody was interested in losing time there and they weont through it "softly". The power and favoritism that Pogacar has almost call for an all in attack from Ineos and other teams in that first week. They will probably want to induce chaos. That's why I think that race dynamics will be affected by this first week.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The power and favoritism that Pogacar has almost call for an all in attack from Ineos and other teams in that first week. They will probably want to induce chaos. That's why I think that race dynamics will be affected by this first week.

I would agree with it if not for Roglic: then Pogacar would be a huge favourite, the biggest in years. In this case, however, Roglic is the second favourite and, if anything, it will be up to other teams to try to hurt the seemingly unbeatable Slovenian duo.

 

[RedheadDane]

I would agree with it if not for Roglic: then Pogacar would be a huge favourite, the biggest in years. In this case, however, Roglic is the second favourite and, if anything, it will be up to other teams to try to hurt the seemingly unbeatable Slovenian duo.

The "Slovenian duo" will need to hurt each other too.
Not physically hurt, though. That's against the rules.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Big interview with Thierry Gouvenou:

CYCLISME - Thierry Gouvenou - Les courses ont énormément changé

Thierry Gouvenou revient pour Sans Filtre sur la saison 2021, et évoque notamment le parcours de l'édition 2022 du Tour de France.

sans-filtre.fr

I couldn't get the link to work in Google Translate. I'll put up some translated quotes:


Red meat for the fans of big mountain stages:

"We still notice that when we put too long stages, with too many passes, it is played with the power meter and in the end not much happens and everything is played in the three, or even two, or even in the last kilometer as at Grand-Colombier (in 2020). Currently, there is no point in putting four or five grand passes in a stage."


(2022 Tour de France )

For me, it's an extremely complete course. Leaving Denmark, there is already a risk of encountering a lot of wind. That means you'll have to have a real team to win. Then there are a lot of places where it seems just for punchers, and that's something that has really been put forward. There will still be cobblestones. Two individual time trials with a total distance which observes an increasing trend, with a good fifty kilometers against the clock. And then we obviously have big mountain stages, with finishes like the one at the Col du Granon, at an altitude of 2400m, it will be plentiful. L’Alpe d'Huez, the Pyrenees which will not be easy, for me it will really have to be complete, and well supervised.

The course ensures that the leaders are seldom quiet. They will have to be at the front very regularly. And then it's a very good first week for the show, with the Alaphilippe, VDP, WVA. If they want to set the Tour on fire, they will have the means.

-

When we look at the first week and what Van der Poel, Alaphilippe and even Pogacar and Van Aert did to us, it was absolutely fabulous. Never before have we had such high viewership in the first week of the Tour de France.


Gouvenou on the soft Megève stage - and finish:

Above all, you have to look at what is behind (laughs)! We still have two huge stages that follow, at Granon and Alpe d'Huez and it was complicated, especially after a rest stage, to put on a hard stage. A priori, it should be a breakaway - if it suits the yellow jersey - who should play for the win. It's true that when you are in this region, it is not necessarily these kinds of stages that you expect, but you have to find a balance. It's getting back on track after a big first week. Sometimes the day off hurts the legs a lot, so it's a bit of a smooth recovery. I don't think there will be any failures in the leaders. But there should be a good fight ahead for the win.


...and on the Granon mountain top finish:

I've been hearing about Granon's return to ASO for a long time. There was an opportunity, an opportunity to put it on, we took advantage of it. Above all, this symbolizes our enormous progress in recent years with Stéphane Boury in our technical areas at the finish line. We are now able to make arrivals with a minimum of material. This allows us to get to sites like this, it's a real change for ASO.


Hautacam:

We traced the Pyrenean final to make it as dynamic as possible, without a valley. I can tell you that whoever wants to mess up the stage that arrives in Hautacam, if he has his legs in the Aubisque, there he does not need a team member. For me this is very conducive to attacks and failures. Clearly, it was designed that way to be able to make up for a lot of time. Afterwards, it's always the legs that decide. Whoever is in the yellow jersey, it is better if he has a few teammates, because otherwise he could find the time long on the last two stages. I really want to see what Aubisque-Spandelles-Hautacam will do.



on the possibility of dirt roads being included in future editions:

(On the women's Tour de France and in particular on stage 4, with white paths) Clearly, we have already wondered whether or not we should put this kind of path on the Tour de France. It has long been a dilemma with us. So we looked in a lot of places and found that south of Troyes there is what you need. Somehow, the girls are going to be pioneers, but we are going to look at this very carefully. If it really does something nice, yes I think it shouldn't be long for the Tour to go there.

Everything is linked, we already need to create links with the communities, and often we start with the other events (Paris-Nice, Dauphiné, now the Women's Tour de France). We grow up together. What happens with the white paths, that could very well be that. We are not going to differentiate between men and women, we can see the same things. And even if I thought the opposite before, they still blew us away with the way they raced Paris-Roubaix. We can definitely learn from a women's event. This is a first touch, we know there are a lot of other paths as well. We (with the communities) will get to know each other with the Women's Tour, and maybe we will meet again soon.



on the 2023 Bilbao Grand Départ:

"We already have a good outline of what should be done (For the start of the Tour 2023). We don't go to the Basque Country to have mass sprints. The Basque Country has an identity in terms of cycling, we are going to take advantage of the terrain."

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Yeah, I feel the need to bite. Thanks for the article and translation, by the way.

We still notice that when we put too long stages, with too many passes, it is played with the power meter and in the end not much happens and everything is played in the three, or even two, or even in the last kilometer as at Grand-Colombier (in 2020).

How would he notice this when they never do long stages with a lot of climbs? The Grand Colombier stage was three categorised climbs on a 174.5k stage which is now apparently too much? Also, the Hautacam stage which you're patting yourself on the back for in the same interview is almost identical climbing-wise!

Currently, there is no point in putting four or five grand passes in a stage.

Dear Thierry, remind me, what was the stage with the hardest combination of four climbs at your race this year? Ah, yes, this stage that was notorious for nothing happening.

But surely, those aren't four grand passes, right? What happened the last time any GT did a stage with four climbs that would definitely be at least cat. 1 at the Tour, of which at least one HC climb? Surely that was a stage where everyone's power meter told them to do nothing until the final 3 kilometres, right?

Now, what if you apply the same criterion but for a five-climb stage? Here's the only two stages of the past decade that fit:

With such defensively-raced stages, you've definitely convinced me you're on the right track, Thierry!

Also, this reasoning is equally terrible:

Sometimes the day off hurts the legs a lot, so it's a bit of a smooth recovery.

Why on earth would you consciously hand the riders a 'smooth recovery' rather than hoping one of the favourites has a bad day due to the rest day?

 

[Fyr3]

One thing I dislike increasingly with routes is that they start in places where they have to travel 100km to get to the mountains? Take the Col du Portet stage this year, they could have started in Saint-Gaudens where they finished the day before, rather than going 70km North only to come back the next day? Even better, they could have by doing this taken in an early climb like the Col des Ares, or Col de Larrieu...

 

[houtdffan]

Can we fire Gouvenou and hire Zomegnan? At least we will get a real GT route again

Instead, we have both the Tour and Vuelta having neutered routes these days

 

[Fyr3]

Who designs the Dauphine routes? They at least generally seem more interesting. And even if a lot of finishes may not be applicable to the Tour there certainly are those that could be (Les Gets, Plateau de Solaison, for example.)

 

[yaco]

What Gouvenau stated is fairly much accurate - Lets go back to the 250 km 'piano' stages where riders often had a Sunday bunch ride - Even better go back and review TDF routes from around 1985 to 2005 - Mostly they were not the most challenging routes.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Who designs the Dauphine routes?

Gilles Maignan.

 

[Red Rick]

What Gouvenau stated is fairly much accurate - Lets go back to the 250 km 'piano' stages where riders often had a Sunday bunch ride - Even better go back and review TDF routes from around 1985 to 2005 - Mostly they were not the most challenging routes.

These guys suffer insanely from selection bias and oversimplification and seem to refuse to look further.

 

[houtdffan]

What Gouvenau stated is fairly much accurate - Lets go back to the 250 km 'piano' stages where riders often had a Sunday bunch ride - Even better go back and review TDF routes from around 1985 to 2005 - Mostly they were not the most challenging routes.

250 km flat stages should not be in the race

However, 250 km mountain stages with 6 hard climbs are not piano rides. e usually get 3-4 hours of flat out racing in those stages