Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 15: Les Gets - Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc, 179.0k

[Rob5091]

The greatest race in the world should be won by dropping your rival or by overtaking him in an ITT. If you can’t create a gap, you shouldn’t be rewarded.

Agree - bonus seconds means later attempts to win and mad dashes on mountain tops. If a guy wins in a photo finish why should he get a 4 second bonus or the guy in second gets a 4 second fine?

 

[MartinGT]

Ciccone FTW!

 

[Netserk]

I might as well ask you the same thing. How would the other years have been different for the better without bonus seconds?

Obviously, in the grand scheme of things, it very rarely will have an influence but it's a nice detail to consider during the stages.

You don't like them of course because why would you...

It makes the racing more pure and simpler. It's very much an aesthetic quality.

When they are in play and matter, they distract. Then it's no longer about racing fast to the line or to distance your rival, and it makes a rider staying on your wheel much more annoying as he can wait to outsprint you on the line. And that leads to defending against being taken advantage of, just as we saw yesterday. I think Ax-3 in 2010 was different, as Schleck wasn't worried about any bonus seconds and not punished on the finish-line, so rather than both going slow it led to attacks as well, not just the timing of your sprint.

And sure, you like them because of course you do. Just like you like Valverde, rest days and short stages. Non-racing.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Today is the day for Poga to take the yellow so he can start last in the TT.

 

[tobydawq]

And sure, you like them because of course you do. Just like you like Valverde, rest days and short stages. Non-racing.

Lol. What a horrible thought to have tactics influence the finale of a race. I hope you turn your TV off the entire spring.

I am mentally equipped to handle the apparently not-so-simple racing that bonus seconds create. I would have thought you were too.

 

[Netserk]

You can dish it out, but you sure can't take it.

 

[search]

Picture likely taken by the photographer on board the moto that blocked Pogi taking 5s.

this indeed the case, yes. Bernard Papon is the name of the photographer, and he apologized for the incident in l'Équipe today.

The photo quoted above was taken by him:

TOPSHOT - Jumbo-Visma's Danish rider Jonas Vingegaard wearing the...

TOPSHOT - Jumbo-Visma's Danish rider Jonas Vingegaard wearing the overall leader's yellow jersey cycles ahead of UAE Team Emirates' Slovenian rider Tadej Pogacar wearing the best young rider's white...

www.gettyimages.co.uk

 

[tobydawq]

You can dish it out, but you sure can't take it.

Take what? Your non-racing nonsense? I wonder why you preferred a sprinter, Boonen, to a "real rider", Cancellara. Isn't that a *** in the armour for Mr Oh Always So Consistent?

 

[Netserk]

Why would it be that? Boonen was no Valverde, he took action and by his will shaped the race he participated in.

And obviously yes, rest days are non-racing. Yet you love them like you love Valverde.

 

[tobydawq]

Why would it be that? Boonen was no Valverde, he took action and by his will shaped the race he participated in.

So did Cancellara. And so does Pogacar.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Why would it be that? Boonen was no Valverde, he took action and by his will shaped the race he participated in.

Only if the Taaienberg was in the race.

 

[Salvarani]

Back in the day they could have a minute of bonus seconds at the top of an MTF.

If I am not mistaken... had Poulidor won that stage to Puy de Dome, where he dropped Anquetil, he would have won. Bahamontes and Jimenez finished ahead on the stage though and took the bonus away.

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

Break for the win?
Or will UAE/Jumbo ride hard again?Somehow doubt Jumbo will, based on how good Pogacar looked yesterday. But maybe UAE will try to copy Jumbos tactics? Problem is they don’t have a Van Aert or Laporte.

 

[D. Pecher]

Problem is they don’t have a Van Aert or Laporte.

Have you heard of a guy called Adam Yates? He even lead out the final sprint for Pogacar. I don't hink UAE is that much worse off in the doms department.

 

[Anderis]

Have you heard of a guy called Adam Yates? He even lead out the final sprint for Pogacar. I don't hink UAE is that much worse off in the doms department.

Yates is more of a Kuss than Van Aert of Laporte.

UAE have good climbers but Jumbo has a big advantage in riders who are strong both on the flat and on the climbs.

 

[laarsland]

Today we will witness the strangest of things, a Lutsenko-Mühlberger winning combo

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

Yates is more of a Kuss than Van Aert of Laporte.

UAE have good climbers but Jumbo has a big advantage in riders who are strong both on the flat and on the climbs.

On a good day Bjerg/Laengen/Trentin could do some damage, but nothing compared to Van Baarle/Van Aert/Laporte.

 

[search]

Have you heard of a guy called Adam Yates? He even lead out the final sprint for Pogacar. I don't hink UAE is that much worse off in the doms department.

UAE needs someone to keep the breakaway in check for the first 100k, if they want to win the stage. And in that regards, I also don't see anyone who is able to do a job like Laporte did yesterday. Laengen and Trentin are not at his level.

They didn't manage to do it on Friday, and normally it'll also be difficult today. But most good breakaway riders must be tired from yesterday as well, so who knows.

 

[Volderke]

Jumbo should have 3 guys in the break and Kuss following:

Vingegaard should attack on the Forclaz and get separation at the bottom of the descent.
Next, Van Hooydonck needs to pull / extend the gap until halfway up the Croix-fry, where Benoot paces until the top.
WvA to wait on the top and pace him over the Aravis until they arrive at Domancy.

Kuss to pull most of the climb so Vingegaard finishes solo. Any other scenario and I will happily say Jumbo is tactically useless.

 

[Gigs_98]

One thing I'm starting to think UAE should absolutely do is place riders in the break. Pogacar is apparently capable of producing a gap but he can't extend it. But if Pogacar goes over the top of a climb a few seconds clear and has a teammate waiting who can make a really strong pull, that might make the difference he needs. For example the little flat section between the two final climbs from today might be a good spot for that. Might be a little tricky to execute but in a race of tiny margins they need to take any chance they can get.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

One thing I'm starting to think UAE should absolutely do is place riders in the break. Pogacar is apparently capable of producing a gap but he can't extend it. But if Pogacar goes over the top of a climb a few seconds clear and has a teammate waiting who can make a really strong pull, that might make the difference he needs. For example the little flat section between the two final climbs from today might be a good spot for that. Might be a little tricky to execute but in a race of tiny margins they need to take any chance they can get.

BuT hE alreADy has ThE motorBikEs tO pUll HiM uP thE mountAIN!!!!

 

[Netserk]

One thing I'm starting to think UAE should absolutely do is place riders in the break. Pogacar is apparently capable of producing a gap but he can't extend it. But if Pogacar goes over the top of a climb a few seconds clear and has a teammate waiting who can make a really strong pull, that might make the difference he needs. For example the little flat section between the two final climbs from today might be a good spot for that. Might be a little tricky to execute but in a race of tiny margins they need to take any chance they can get.

Agreed, and well put.

 

[Big Doopie]

Actually Hinault won a bunch sprint in Paris once.

In 1974 Merckx won the final stage sprint (the last time it ended on the velodrome) — after Patrick Sercu was DQ-ed for irregular sprint.

And, yes, Hinault won the final stage sprint once, but also won a breakaway with Zoetemelk (2nd in GC) in 1979.

 

[Peter von]

One thing I'm starting to think UAE should absolutely do is place riders in the break. Pogacar is apparently capable of producing a gap but he can't extend it. But if Pogacar goes over the top of a climb a few seconds clear and has a teammate waiting who can make a really strong pull, that might make the difference he needs. For example the little flat section between the two final climbs from today might be a good spot for that. Might be a little tricky to execute but in a race of tiny margins they need to take any chance they can get.

Yeah Maybe. They have tried a few times, but Jumbo ain’t having it. and getting into the break isn’t always that easy in general. But yeah they should have 2/3 pairs of riders. Taking turns trying to get into the break. Even if Jumbo spend a lot of energy closing down moves on the flat-ish section, that is also good because it means Kuss and Keldermann goes to the front too soon again

Jumbo needs to put Wout in the break if possible, but not spend all day doing it. When a group has 15 secs, Wout should just jumps up.

And then they set a relaxed pace until they slowly starts increasing the tempo on the climbs.

 

[rallybanana]

What he means is that Vingegaard hasn't won a stage, while Pogacar, Rodriguez, Hindley, and Yates (the rest of the top 5) have.

And in 2019 Alaphilippe was the only finisher in the top 5 to win a stage.